Idle Issue After ECU Flash - Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 01:59 AM Thread Starter
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Idle Issue After ECU Flash

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So last month I sent my ECU in to SBU (Superbikeunlimited) to be flashed for my 2009 R6.
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I got my ECU back last Monday on 3/27 and immediately got it back in my bike. The entire week that I rode it my bike felt amazing, the reduced engine braking, better throttle response that felt super smooth, all that good stuff. I rode it everyday without issue leading up to Sunday 4/01.

On Sunday I went riding with a small group of people for around 2 1/2 hours, we then stopped and grabbed something to eat. When I left I started up my bike and right away noticed that my bike was idling low, like at 1k instead of the normal 1250-1350. When I went to turn out of the parking lot I pulled my clutch in and my bike abruptly died. Confused I started it back up again (with a little help of the throttle) and proceeded to the next stop sign, where it died on my again. Started it back up and continued on not having to stop until I was closer to home, I pulled off to the side of the road and pulled in my clutch expecting it to happen again, and surprisingly it didn't die at all, and was back to it's normal idle.

Since then when I start my bike up cold it will begin by idling at either 2k or 1.7ish, but once my bikes temp goes from Lo -> 109F the idle drops back down to 1k,then bogs out and dies. If I help it idle by keeping the throttle held and my bike gets up to temperatures of 180+ I can let off the throttle and my bike will act completely normal.

Before I could get in contact with SBU I tried the following:
-Flushed gas tank + add new gas
-checked oil
-checked battery voltage and operation under load + charged it
-checked ignition coil resistances (all primary and secondary resistances within spec)
-replaced spark plugs (even though I only had 4k miles on the ones installed)
-cleaned TPS sensor and checked it's values in the Diag mode (16 when closed and 94 when WOT)
-checked for kinked gas or vacuum lines
-Valves were checked at 26k miles and my bike now sits at only 34k.

I talked with someone from SBU yesterday and was told that "they normally don't get this issue with my gen R6" but that they can try bumping up the target idle by like 200rpms. He also told me that recently another customer with an 05 R1 is having the opposite issue, and that his idle is 300rpms higher than what they set it to after they flashed it.
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Now I don't know a bunch about this ECU flashing business, but I have read just about everything on the
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thread.

From what I gather on that thread it seems like people who have idle issues are supposed to go into the fuel map and adjust the fuel delivery numbers in the 500-2000rpm ranges by either making the number greater or subtracting them.

I'm aware that you cannot adjust the idle manually on my gen R6 (and to NEVER touch the idle screw on the 06+ R6s
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) and that the only way to adjust the idle is with the ECU, but I was told that when I send my ECU back that they aren't going to touch the fuel map at all, rather all they have to do is "raise the target idle". Which is confusing because after reading plenty on here I believed that the only way to raise or lower your idle is by doing exactly that, meaning changing values in the fuel map.

Here are some videos I took showing what my issue is:


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This video shows what my bike does on a cold start up with the idle issue.


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This video shows what I have had to do the last two days in order to get my bike to idle correctly from a cold start.

For reference:

-Stock Headers w/ cats fully removed + MJS midpipe + GYTR Slip on
-BMC Air Filter
-Block off plates installed

If anyone can share some insight or let me know if their attempt of fixing my issue might be all I need it would be greatly appreciated. I'll have to wait a week or so before I get my ECU back, when I do I will share the results. Thanks.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-09-2017, 05:12 PM
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Re: Idle Issue After ECU Flash

The problem is we don't know what they are flashing with. I can tell you I finally sorted out my idle problems with FlashTune, and it came down to I finally figured out even if you tell the ECU in the flash TPS only fuel mapping (for example) it still doesn't use that single map like you think it would. It's still using other mapping at points. So at idle no matter what you've put in that TPS map, your idle mixture can be all over the map. At least in the version I'm using which is much older software than most. It only seems to be idle that's really the problem, and most people seem to just bump up the idle higher and not worry about it. I still have a PCV and auto tune installed and never removed it. So I ended up just using the PCV to correct the fuel mixture at idle, and this allowed me to get a normal idle and it's been perfect ever since.

07 R6, MJS Header, GYTR slip on, smog block offs, K&N, flashed ECU, PCV, AutoTune, -1/+2.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 04:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Idle Issue After ECU Flash

I'm still waiting to receive my ECU back, so I still don't know if the changes they have made will fix my issue. To answer your question though, they also use the FlashTune interface to do all their ECU flashing. I would imagine since they are a decently sized company, with their own shop, and dyno, that they use the latest and greatest version of the software, I could be wrong though. Unfortunately they are based in North Carolina, so getting my bike to them from Arizona wouldn't be feasible lol. I do have a dumb question though, I have my ECU flashed but I don't have any power commander or piggyback fuel controller, would I still be able to take my bike to a nearby dyno and have them tune it? or is a fuel controller of some sort required to get a bike dynotuned?
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 07:47 AM
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Re: Idle Issue After ECU Flash

No you need some sort of fuel controller to for them to tune the bike at all. Even if the place you take it to has FlashTune capabilities, they can't see what is one the ECU.

07 R6, MJS Header, GYTR slip on, smog block offs, K&N, flashed ECU, PCV, AutoTune, -1/+2.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 07:32 PM
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Re: Idle Issue After ECU Flash

woah I noitce you have 33k miles on that bike. have you had the valves adjusted yet?
this I would put money on being your issue if you have not had this done.
it might be time to have your throttle bodies synchronized too. (it affects the idle the most).

all of this was said before I noticed the miles on the dash,

with the flashing software it is possible to raise the rpm to any target setting you wish. remember your bike's throttle is controlled by an electric motor. not by your throttle grip. it can do whatever the ecu tells it to. even without your input. so yeah it's possible to turn the idle up or down via the ecu.
if you want to see what SBU is fooling with you can download the software from ftecu and look at it.
you just have to create an account. (its free)



SBU's map is going to be locked. so a dyno tuner isn't going to be able to do anything with their map (view or change). you will have to purchase a PCV or a flash kit. meaning you paid sbu $200 for a few changes (only what yamaha allows) to the ecu settings and a map that is set in stone and can't be changed. also they made a map based on their bikes way over in NC. it's not going work as well for you out in AZ. altitude and and climate is totally different. it's no surprise to me it doesn't run right.
you should have just purchased the ftecu kit and done the flashing yourself. they have a lot of maps to choose from. even one from graves yamaha. you can also share maps with others.
having to send it back for fixes or changes is why I decided to buy the kit. I bought the woolich racing kit instead though. they're about the same overall. it has some better features in some things and ftecu has better features through other things. I wouldn't say one is better than the other.

at this point I would just cut your losses with SBU and look at getting your own flash kit or pcv and autotune systems for either system you choose. I think your problem is mostly with their mapping for bikes in their climate and altitude.

Last edited by yamahacrazy; 04-13-2017 at 08:03 PM.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 04:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Idle Issue After ECU Flash

Got it, thanks OhioYJ

Yamahacrazy,

As mentioned in my original post, I have had the valves inspected, right at 26k miles. When they were inspected the technician told me that my valves barely needed any adjusting, as they were all pretty much within spec. As you know my bike only sits at 34k now, so I can't imagine they would fall out of spec that quickly, especially considering how little they needed adjustment the first time, but thank you for asking it is definitely something I know to be the cause for some people.

Thanks for clearing up the "target idle" question with the FTECU program, it is in fact just a drop down option to select the target idle. I know my bike is fly-by-wire but I didn't think you could just adjust the idle in the ECU without changing something with the fuel mapping.

Luckily I only paid $110 to have my ECU flashed by SBU, of the options available I had them apply the following:

-Remove all throttle based restrictions
-Remove all speed and gear based restrictions
-Race ignition timing (for premium pump gas)
-YCC-T Race Throttle
-Reduce Engine Braking
-Adjustable radiator fan temps for more efficient cooling
-Bypass the factory o2 sensor for better throttle response
-Enable ECU based Quickshifting
-Load a preconfigured fuel map based on modifications done

I'm well aware of altitude and climate being a factor when paying for a mail-in ECU flashing service like this one. The only reason why I went with SBU over the other companies is that I have riding buddy who has used them twice to flash his FZ-09 and 2015 R1 and he has never had any issues, well that and the price lol.

As awesome as having the harness to do it myself would be, it costs $400 compared to the cost of $110 to have it flashed by them, although I wouldn't have to be sitting around wondering if my bike is going to idle right when I get my ECU back if had done that lol.

I guess the end goal would be to get a PCV with the autotune kit then get it on a dyno, but man that costs a pretty penny after all that.

You mentioned that SBU can only make a few changes to my ECU and "only what Yamaha allows" but what other changes are you referring to?

I could of had them adjust the rev limiter, adjust the velocity stack opening point, and calibrate the speedometer, but I opted not to have those things messed with. Everything else I listed above I had them change though, just curious as to what other "top secret" changes can be made that Yamaha doesn't want you to have lol.

Last edited by Stealthy_Aban; 04-14-2017 at 04:23 AM.
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 07:06 AM
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Re: Idle Issue After ECU Flash

I wouldn't necessarily get an AutoTune if you are going to go get a DynoTune as well with a PCV. I mean there are Pros and Cons to both, but you should probably read through my FAQ at the top. If you are going to get flashing package / software yourself, definitely read my FlashTune FAQ and about the shady stuff Flashtune did.... I have a warning in my FAQ. As you don't want to buy hardware and then have them brick it with a virus because they decide they don't like their original sales model anymore.

I've never had much luck with that target RPM feature in any of the versions of FlashTune, admittedly I haven't used any of the newest versions as I don't want my hardware bricked and I like being able to still use the equipment I bought, so I'm stuck on older versions.

You have pretty much the exact setup as me, and I had to change my idle mixture quite a bit to really solve my idle problems. Otherwise I was stuck with an idle that was really high (~2k) to end up with a bike that would idle in all situations, or I was constantly flashing different settings every time the weather changed.

However I would wait and see what happens when you get it back, now that they know where it idles, they have a reference point. So that is at least should be helpful for them in figuring it out. You may be trying to solve something that may already be fixed when you plug it back in.

I used to flash these all the time for people here on the forum, and out of the all the flashes I did I think I had two come back for idle issues. One reflash and the issue was fixed. Once I had a reference point it's easier to figure out. So don't sweat it yet.

07 R6, MJS Header, GYTR slip on, smog block offs, K&N, flashed ECU, PCV, AutoTune, -1/+2.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 02:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Idle Issue After ECU Flash

Update:

I got my ECU back on Tuesday the 18th. The idle was definitely adjusted, before from a cold start my bike would idle at 2k, then once it warmed up it would drop down between 1250-1350 (before I began having the idle issue that is). After getting my ECU back a second time, from a cold start my bike would idle from 1.5-1.6k, and by that I mean it would bounce back and forth between 1.5 & 1.6k making the well known "whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa" sound many people experience after adding a full exhaust. The idle remained that way even after the bike warmed up, or after riding it for a short time, it would occasionally smooth out and stay at 1.5k RPMs, but not all the time. I was okay with all of this because as long as it wasn't dying just trying to idle, or when I'd pull my clutch in shortly after taking off after a cold start, it would be okay.

Unfortunately on Monday the 24th, the problem reared it's ugly head again. I had ridden my bike earlier in the afternoon, everything was fine up till this point. When I went to run an errand later in the evening I started my bike, let it warm up to about 125F, and took off. As soon as I got to the first stop sign to turn out of my neighborhood, I pulled in the clutch and the RPMS dropped below 1k thus causing my bike to die. Started it back up and made my turn, by the very next stoplight which was only down the road I pulled in my clutch and my bike was fine, idling where it had been at about 1.5-1.6k, by this time it had warmed up more.

I am now back to the same issue I had prior to sending the ECU back to have the idle increased. When I start my bike from a cold start (meaning it has been 8-16 hours since I had started it) it will begin idling normally, but will soon drop below 1k and the bike will die as soon as the bike begins to warm up. The only way to fix this for now is to give the bike throttle until the bike warms up fully, then it will act fine.

I spoke with SBU this morning and explained I was having the same issue again. They seemed "confused" as if I was the only person ever to have this issue after getting my ECU flashed by them. They said "well we could try bumping up the idle again and see if that helps". To which I explained that at this point that increasing the idle seems to only be a temporary band-aid type fix to the problem. I explained that it most likely has to do with the fuel map that was flashed onto my ECU, and that it needs to be altered, or a different map altogether needs to be flashed to it. They said that they would be willing to do it, but also made it seem as if there was no way in the world that it was their fuel map that could be causing it, since their maps are "race tested and approved" from bikes they put up on their dyno. Even though from everything that I've read in OhioYJ's Sticky, and countless other threads, that it almost always points back to being the fuel map that causes idle issues after installing a full exhaust, or installing a power commander etc.

As upsetting as this has been, I'm glad that SBU is still willing to work with me in hopes of fixing my issue. They said they can try a new map altogether as they said they have several different ones for different full exhaust systems. They also said if I have a particular map I want flashed that I can send it to them and they can flash whatever map I want, at my own risk.

As much as I would love to just buy a power commander now and try different maps out myself, it will have to wait until late next month. Until then I figured I can at least try to have SBU flash a different map onto my ECU and hope for the best, but the question is, which one?

I could go with OhioYJs MJS map, or just leave it in the hands of SBU and hope they have one that is different enough to work.

I never mentioned this but after I completed installing my own MJS midpipe + block off plates, I helped a buddy do the same thing to his 14' R6, I was still waiting to get my ECU back for the first time when I did this. After installing his midpipe and block off plates, I also installed his PCV for him (it was a first for me but turns out very easy to do). The map I used was one directly from Power Commander, its description was "2010-2014' Yamaha R6,MJS header,GYTR slip-on exhaust system,Stock or aftermarket air filter". I mention all this because after doing all this his bike ran great, and has continued to not give him any problems. He even had a Toce "exhaust" and not a GYTR slip-on like I do.

Should I try sending this map to SBU and seeing how it works on my bike? Does using a map that says it's for a 2010-2014' R6 even though mine is a 2009 going to hurt anything, considering our engines our identical?

OhioYj,

You mentioned that when you had an ECU come back with idle issues that it only took you one re-flash to correct it. Do you mind sharing this map you used that fixed the idle issues for those two folks? I wish I could share the map that SBU currently has on my bike for reference, but they refused to show me what it looks like due to the fact that its their special snowflake map that they created. They did say however that I can send them screenshots of maps I might want them to flash for me, and they could tell me if they were vastly different or not from what they have available or from what they already have my ECU flashed with.

I also told them how I plan on getting a PCV to hopefully fix the issue myself, but in the meantime they could try one of their maps. I mentioned how when I do get a PCV that I would need to send it back to them anyway so that they can re-enable the o2 sensor so that I can plug in the "o2 optimizer" that comes with the PCV. The guy at SBU basically said that they strongly do not recommend that anyone use the o2 optimizer, even with a PCV, and said that they can cause "all sorts of issues". But didn't really explain why exactly. I mean they know that I plan on sending my ECU back anyways so there would be no reason to lie about their thoughts on the PCV's o2 optimizer if they could easily re-enable my o2 sensor connection anyways when I send it back, so that part has me confused. They basically said even if I do get a PCV that I shouldn't use the o2 optimizer that comes with it. Any thoughts on this?

Last edited by Stealthy_Aban; 04-26-2017 at 02:44 AM.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 03:49 AM
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Re: Idle Issue After ECU Flash

I'll have to read through this later when I get home from work, and digest it more. However they are all over the place, and at the risk of saying they don't know what they are doing to some degree. They don't need to enable the O2 sensor for the O2 optimizer. Leave it disabled. That's just dumb. In fact your PCV will work better with it "disabled" because the bike won't be jumping between the two different maps in my opinion. With it disabled the bike will only be running the "high load" map, and it's easier to tune that way if you ever go get it tuned. Either way O2 optimizer doesn't even matter. Of course that's just my opinion.

Your bike sounds more like the trouble my personal bike had. I flashed many of these bikes for the forum members and usually the idle adjustments were a simple up or down on the throttle mapping. I may still have some of these maps saved, I'll have to look when I get home. My bike however seemed to do whatever it wanted with the idle, and I kept adjusting, and adjusting, and it never would be right. That's when I finally figured out FlashTune wasn't using the fuel map I thought it was at idle. No matter what I entered, it wasn't changing the AFR.

I'll look and see what I still have when I get home, and see if I still have any of the maps saved from someone's bike that I had to reflash.

07 R6, MJS Header, GYTR slip on, smog block offs, K&N, flashed ECU, PCV, AutoTune, -1/+2.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 10:09 PM
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Re: Idle Issue After ECU Flash

I have an 09 R6 with the latest Flashtune software and I can not disable the O2 sensor without getting an unclearable fault code.

I was told to keep the O2 enabled in the software and to leave the O2 sensor unplugged or out. I don't get any fault codes but I am just wondering if my bike is running optimally.

I plan getting it dynoed at some point but they are just so far away from me to get a chance to have it done.
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