: 99 R6 ignition problem.
01-05-2007, 11:18 AM
:menace Hi there!
I live in london ( so u.k model but virtually no difference ) and i have a sparking problem on all cylinders + it wont fire up at all, it was working one minute and now just wont start? i know my bike inside out but this electrical problem has me stumped, and being a student refuse to pay garage repair prices!!
here are the symptoms:
all fuses ok.
the fuel pump primes up.
carbs dynojeted + working.
not 2 sure how to test throttle position sensor condition.
new k+n filter.
ignition coils all seem in working order.
spark plugs only done 1000 or so miles, visually fine condition.
not sure how to test pickup timing sensor condition.
i have bridged out immobiliser on alarm.
all wires in ignition loom have continuity in the right places.
healthy 12v supply.
not sure how to test the safety cut out relay but surely that was faulty it would not let the bike spin over?
all relays ok.
i think thats about it?! so if you have ever encountered such a random problem and have any imput i would be really really grateful as my bike is in the front room of my house! and the landlord will go nuts if it looks like a race track pit garage in here!
01-06-2007, 12:45 AM
Ignition switch assembly possibly. The ignition pickup rarely goes bad. Is this a NEW ignition transistor unit, or a used one?
01-07-2007, 12:18 PM
I just finally figured out why my bike wouldn't fire up. I sent it to the dealer and they pulled the right side engine cover and found the ignition rotor was not in the correct place and therefore not generating any signal through the pickup coil. If you have a Multi meter you should check for continuity and (inductance?) on the connector that comes from the right side engine cover. Also I'm not sure how it would work but put the leads on the same connector and hit the starter to check for any change in voltage(logging would be nice here). Let me know if this helps.
01-09-2007, 11:12 AM
The haynes workshop manual/bible recommends the pick up coil resistance should be between 248 and 372 ohms and mine is reading 293 ohms so it seems ok, and perfect continuity from it to the cdi.
i havent got information for the pick up inductance tests but will find out more.
another area im not sure about is the H.T coils, the haynes bible says:
Primary coil resistance should be between 0.238 and 0.322 ohms
Secondary coil between 8.16 and 11.04 K-ohms
my good multimeter has gone missing (little brother) and im now unfortunately using a cheap one.
the readings i got for all the primary coils came in at 0.5 ohms? not to sure if thats due to crap multimeter or they are all ****? and strange that they are all 0.178 ohms over the limit?
all the secondary coil resistances fell within recommended range,
coil 1 secondary resistance- 9.45 K-ohms
coil 2 secondary - 9.17 K-ohms
coil 3 secondary - 9.71 K-ohms
coil 4 secondary - 9.71 K-ohms
so is there a chance all the H.T coils have failed on the primary coil? seems like an option but not to sure how it could have happened as it started and ran, then half a day later there all blown? any ideas?
01-10-2007, 12:15 AM
Nope, coils are fine. So is the pickup as I suspected. Check ignition switch (all outputs and inputs) and the ignition transistor could be junk.
01-10-2007, 03:45 AM
Are you using an in-line spark tester? If you're not, pick one up at the local auto parts store and verify visually that the voltage going to the plugs is good. Don't try shorting the plug out on the frame, it won't give you a good enough idea. The second bike I had, a Katana, just wouldn't start one day. It would crank, but wouldn't start and I had it running two days before this. It had new plugs in it so I replaced the coils, because the resistance wasn't to speck, plug wires, and almost bought a new cdi box. I borrowed an in-line tester and tada, I had good spark. Put four new plugs in it and it fired right up. Double check your spark and you might try new plugs just for the hell of it.
01-12-2007, 12:33 PM
thanks very much ill give them both a try and let u know, cheers people!
01-12-2007, 02:10 PM
yo Bishilvr, what do you mean by ignition transistor? my old key wore out about 5 months ago so had 2 replace the whole ignition switch, are they known to be a suspect for failure?
i tryed the in-line tester and check this out:
it doesnt light up when you hit the starter (but still spins up) so i would assume no voltage or signal from the cdi?, all wires have continuity in the right places from the cdi to the coils and from the coils to ground(-), there is power to the cdi and it is too grounded,
but if you flick the ignition switch on and off, i randomly spotted that the in-line tester does bulb does flick on and off?? anyone know if thats a good thing, a bad thing, or just a thing?
so is something shorting out maybe?
but that must mean some voltage is passing through the coil, i know the cdi needs cirtain info to trigger the spark, like the pick up rotor and throttle pos sensor, but they all seem in working order?
01-13-2007, 12:40 PM
The ignition does'nt have to have a throttle position sensor to work, it will spark regaurdless. Never, EVER use a testlight around the coils or ignition box, or ignition box output. If it was'nt toasted you can almost be sure it is NOW! Those systems dont use 12v on them, they use high voltage, low current a/c, and a 12v test light will not be able to check them and will actually only destroy them. I am going with my original thought that you have a bad ignition transistor (what some call a cdi box) I dont use the term cdi box these days because most bikes dont actually use cdi (capacitive discharge ignition) these days, and instead use electronic control transistor control units (tcu) and or engine control units (ecu) for the ignition source...
01-14-2007, 04:56 AM
i see!! oops!
i do have 2 cdi's/tcu's one i got from another running bike and hopefuly havent mashed or toasted, and plug'd in and spun it up without tampering around and still the same prob, no spark? i see what your saying about it should spark regardless and all signs point to the cdi/tcu? but do you think there are any other factors that could affect this, like a short somewhere? or just try another new cdi/tcu?
thanks again for your words of wisdom!
01-14-2007, 12:33 PM
It would be perfect if you could find someone with a bike that you could try your tci boxes on to see if they are good. A bad tci box wont hurt another persons bike, just to let you know.
01-14-2007, 05:12 PM
nice one, i'll have to find a yam dealer and see what they say, is this the only way to test them without specialist tools? or do u know any tricks of the trade?
01-14-2007, 11:57 PM
There is no way to test them, any attempt will damage it. I diagnose everything around it and then replace it as the last part in the chain.