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horrible rider.

6K views 53 replies 19 participants last post by  tfs32 
#1 ·
My wreck this past weekend at MSRHouston.
Been crashing a lot lately, and this one i had no idea wtf happened, front just washed out.
Was feeling good and riding smooth until this point..

 
#3 ·
lol thats one of the better one in texas too haha

yea the angle looks crazy, look at the angle on the straight tho, my camera is mounted badly angled. i was not even dragging knee so i had plenty more to go.

the general consensus was that that little breath of throttle mixed with a low front tire pressure caused the wreck.

im just saying i was nowhere near max lean angle when it happen, and that breath of throttle may have been me reacting to the front pushing., sucks either way, but almost no damage to the bike, although i ground thru one of my gloves.
 
#5 ·
I have to agree. It might have been the fact that you were not on the gas which may have exceeded the traction of your front tire...very similar thing happened to me and the instructor I was riding with basically said I needed to be on the gas a bit earlier in the future
 
#15 ·
Fine... maybe you weren't crossed up.

But likely you weren't off the bike enough since you claim to have run out of tire/maxed your lean angle. You always feel like you're way off than you actually are.

Unless you have pics proving otherwise... I would put my money on that.
 
#19 ·
this is kinda what im thinking.
i also listened to someone real fast running same tires/ and dropped my tire pressures that day.
Running 20psi rear 25 in the front, and i really think that contributed to it, shoulda left it at 30-31 front.

tires were a gpa slick in the rear and a gpa kr449 in the front, brand new front and 2 TD on the rear
 
#20 ·
Hard to tell from the video, but it looked and sounded to me like many of your handle bar and control inputs were fairly abrupt. Also saw front fork movement that was maybe suspect. With that in mind, I'd think you had poor traction, not-optimal fork set-up, then added a bunch of handle bar input at an inappropriate time.

My 2 cents. Back down the speed a little is my suggestion. Figure out what when wrong, then work back up to pace.
 
#22 ·
28 cold in the front shooting for 31-32 hot psi is usually the goal. 25 cold is a little low but should only make the bike unsettled and lethargic on direction changes. I wouldn't put it on low tire pressure for that spill.

I saw you do it a few other times at different turns. You let off the gas mid turn. This is of course a no no. In this video I see that you let off the gas a little bit and then more lean angle was added. Then as quick as you can say shit, the bike finished the job for you. But as far as I can tell you let off the gas just before you tipped in a little more. That is the quick way to make a front tire mad. The low tire pressure may have exacerbated the the potential, but it was the throttle input that was the nail in the coffin.
 
#23 ·
I'm no expert, but what I saw was that you were on and off the throttle mid corners fairly often (especially on the longer corners) and on this particular one you rolled off (loading the front end) then decide to add lean angle and throttle at the same time. Because I had/have a habit of that myself, I tend to pay a fair bit of attention to the whole "don't add lean angle and throttle" bit.

On the quicker corners you're okay, coming up to the slow part of the corner then taking away lean angle as you're applying the throttle, but on the longer "patience" corners you seem to toss that out the window.

If you're crashing what you consider frequently, then you're doing something wrong and you need to figure out what it is and slow down till you correct it.

Tire pressures probably didn't help you any, and running them that far off may make a tire give out when modern rubber technology could have otherwise saved you from yourself.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Am I the only rider who successfully lets on and off the gas during a turn?

I am saying this jokingly, cause when you read this thread it reads as if it's the end all, be all of moves that guarantees a crash. When at Jennings, I started to even get comfortable braking mid turn to tighten up my apex to T11. Getting off the gas shouldn't wipe the front end out at an advanced pace when the lean angle isn't maxed out, etc.
 
#31 ·
no way to know for sure.. but if the tire psi was the problem, how did you manage to get through the first 5 minutes on that .. umm.. track.. :) without issue? you didn't appear to have any problems navigating lots of corners till that point.

my take is as some eluded to, you may have been off the gas for a tad longer entering that corner than normal and made a bar input. it kind of looked like you were a tad wide.
I would also suggest learning to blip the throttle a bit when downshifting. you rely on the slipper an awful lot. that lurch when you let the clutch out is gonna upset the bike a bit, and if you are leaned when downshifting (not that you have to, but there may be times when you want to and it's the faster way around) it's gonna put even more weight on the front when not needed.
Or don't. You were riding fine in my opinion, some good lines, taking your time when passing.. etc.

little more info too:
what tires
do you use warmers
how many track days on em
anything you can think of that you didn't relate
 
#38 ·
thanks, and yea, these are all things im steadily working on. hoping to get my CMRA license next year, and one of the things i work on every track day is exactly what your saying, smooth.

the corner worker told me same thing, i look good, but he could see me making adjustments mid turn, instead of just a smooth fluent motion.

Yes i run warmers,
the tires were a 209gp dunlop up front (brand new)
and a 211gp slick in the rear (1 TD on it)
maybe i didnt say this yet , but i was in no way shape or form pushing myself, i was well within my comfort zone, working on the correct line to enter the turn i wrecked on.
 
#34 ·
Hey now. I never said I'm Valentino Rossi.. :laugh very aware I'm pretty slow out there.

I'm just saying, it has caused me to run wide, I know what happens, but since I've felt what happens, I'm able to stay planted. But you're right. Only do it when I'm correcting myself.
 
#37 ·
Letting off the gas mid turn will cause more front slides than anything you can do. It may not have happened yet, But keep it in your head when it finally does. It is possible to push the front through a turn by getting on the gas too much, but isn't nearly as common. As The MELK-MAN said, corrections are a sign that you never had it right to begin with.

Which brings me to another rule. Only one steering input shall be made during a turn; The one that got you to change direction in the first place. If your making two, three, or more steering inputs in turns ( that are not double apex turns ), then you are making more inputs than is practical for a happy machine. food for thought.....
 
#42 ·
Next chance I get I'll post pics and the differences between the uk an us front.

No comparison at all. NONE. The AMA tires are on the bottom of my list of tires to consider. I've got two full sets with 1 race on each and wont even sell em to my customers. Lmao


Sent from my iPhone using Motorcycle.com App
 
#44 ·
well im glad my track day vendor informed me of that... :roll:

when i was looking for a set i was informed that these would be just like the ntec i was coming off, grip wise.

live and learn, atleast the biggest damage was the subframe getting snapped again.
 
#47 ·
yea, they suck compared to many other tires. especially compared to the uk ntec. You even state "not the best grip in the world".. if at a track day pace you are already noticing the difference, how do you think it is for someone going at an expert pace? There are better tires out there.
 
#48 ·
The uk ntec's are the bizz for sure. I couldn't get them to cut loose on me, but at $500 a set its a bit much to be burning up at trackdays. I'm not too slow either and would love to run on them all the time.. I find it a little more practical to run on lower end tires and save the money for more track days. Now when I race, cost is no object.......
 
#49 · (Edited)
try ONE set of the power CUP michelins. It's just a set of tires, you will have to buy more regardless :) you will save money, and go fast. there is a "C" rear michelin cup that will have a bit harder side compound than the "A" -soft, or "B" - medium so it should last longer for trackdays (but is still a full on competition tire).

The pirelli race compounds are very good too, racers are goin fast on those as well. but will have a different "feel" especially on the front vs. the dunlop or michlin (pirelli is a fairly soft carcass where the dunlop and michelin fronts are pretty firm carcass tires) I'm pretty sure those uk ntec's are more than $500 a set too aren't they?
 
#50 ·
I have been able to snag the Ntec's for around $500 in the past. Shipping adds more. Not sure what they are going for recently. Been a couple years since I've ran them.

The new Miche's are pretty good? I recently tried a set of the Pirrelli super bike track day tires. Not happy with them. They have too little grip, but they have lasted three track days @ middle of A group pace!!! Need a set that will last and have grip. Perhaps the Miche's will do the trick......
 
#51 ·
I have been able to snag the Ntec's for around $500 in the past. Shipping adds more. Not sure what they are going for recently. Been a couple years since I've ran them.

The new Miche's are pretty good? I recently tried a set of the Pirrelli super bike track day tires. Not happy with them. They have too little grip, but they have lasted three track days @ middle of A group pace!!! Need a set that will last and have grip. Perhaps the Miche's will do the trick......
LOL. You're totally chasing your tail on that Luke. :lmao

Closest thing you'll get to that is the dragon supercorsas, but the profile isn't as aggressive as any of the newer tires.
 
#52 ·
yeah I know, but after 4 years of nothing but track riding, I'm tired of spending money on fake rubber that doesn't last. I am at that state where I am trying many new things to see what works and what doesn't. The Pirrelli superbike track day tires, don't cut it and I'm certain after what I saw with other slower riders the new stoners won't work either. If I can find a set of tires in the $400 range that can keep up with me I would be happy. If I can get 2 track days out of them I am happy. I have only been getting one day out of most of the ones I have tried.
 
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