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Old 10-31-2012, 03:31 PM   #21
MELK-MAN
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Re: Keeping the rear solid on landing

i would forget about that air-time issues for now and work on getting smooth. by your own admission, and from what you say other c.r. are telling you, that is something to start with.
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Old 10-31-2012, 03:42 PM   #22
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Re: Keeping the rear solid on landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by MELK-MAN View Post
mostly just keep loose on the bars too.
This was my first thought, too. It's easy to grab the grips too tightly because of the pucker-factor of going airborne.
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:16 PM   #23
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Re: Keeping the rear solid on landing

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Originally Posted by Reactor View Post
No one has caught it on vid yet . They will next time though, I asked then to watch out in case I bite it and not take them out and so I can see what is going on back there.

My rear suspension is set pretty hard. Sag was set, my preload is at max and the suspension guy asked me a bunch of questions to fine tune the rest so not sure on those settings. Adjustments could be made I guess based on a faster pace since my last adjustments.

I am average weight I guess, 190lbs with gear with no recent changes in weight.
Static Sag is a separate variable in the suspension equation and is determind by spring rate and preload ONLY. Rebound damping is what I mentioned earlier as a possible cause for your "air time". Damping doesnt affect static sag at all. However, if your preload is at max you may want to use a fork with higher spring rate and less preload. Without some vids its a little hard to tell but I'm still puting money on rebound damping and throttle control.
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Old 11-03-2012, 04:45 PM   #24
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Re: Keeping the rear solid on landing

My guess is that the faster guys are turning later and apex at a different point in the turn, thereby reducing the " jump potential ". Being airborn mid turn is not fun and there is probably no right or wrong way to deal with it.

I would not use the rear brake. I would shoot to stay on the gas more than anything. If you do have the incident I would also shoot to get the rear tire down first. It seems to me that it would be easier to deal with the wobble without the front tire in the equation. Watch the moto cross guys for example. You can come out of a turn with the front tire in the air and if the rear slips out it is easy to work with it. When the front is down the sudden loss of rear traction transfers weight on the front and can maker the bike buck even more.

Using the rear brake like that mid turn and then suddenly getting airborn is a quick way to lock the rear tire up while in the air. When it comes back down the tire speed VS. road speed will be incompatible. This could lead to an instant loss of traction and a big slide. I would follow the rule " once you get on the gas in a turn, you will continue to stay on the gas, or accelerate throughout the rest of the turn" .
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Old 11-03-2012, 05:06 PM   #25
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Re: Keeping the rear solid on landing

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke geis View Post
My guess is that the faster guys are turning later and apex at a different point in the turn, thereby reducing the " jump potential ". Being airborn mid turn is not fun and there is probably no right or wrong way to deal with it.

I would not use the rear brake. I would shoot to stay on the gas more than anything. If you do have the incident I would also shoot to get the rear tire down first. It seems to me that it would be easier to deal with the wobble without the front tire in the equation. Watch the moto cross guys for example. You can come out of a turn with the front tire in the air and if the rear slips out it is easy to work with it. When the front is down the sudden loss of rear traction transfers weight on the front and can maker the bike buck even more.

Using the rear brake like that mid turn and then suddenly getting airborn is a quick way to lock the rear tire up while in the air. When it comes back down the tire speed VS. road speed will be incompatible. This could lead to an instant loss of traction and a big slide. I would follow the rule " once you get on the gas in a turn, you will continue to stay on the gas, or accelerate throughout the rest of the turn" .
an apex for a faster rider is the same apex for the slower rider. it is the point in the turn that makes for the fastest way through the corner when using all the track as needed. THat is not to say that 2 riders of vastly different ability will apex at the same point, but they should..

you won't be standing on the rear brake pedal, it actually takes some effort to lock the rear brake in most cases. And in any event, a 350+ lb motorcycle with a rider will get the wheel quickly spinning again once it touches down. A hot sticky rear tire is gonna grab the pavement and roll. I understand where you are coming from with the word of caution though.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:42 AM   #26
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Re: Keeping the rear solid on landing

From chatting with two AMA racers specifically about that area of the track. Here is the response.

Quote:
The initial setup to that turn is critical and I have only seen someone like Pinson do an amazing job at the entry to that turn. You need to exit turn 9 under load and upshift a gear if gearing is correct. However, that causes the bike to want to continue it's pointed direction. Meaning, you NEED to get the bike flicked and out wide before turning in to 10a from 9. Again, Pinson does this better than anyone I have seen. I cannot get the bike switched as well as he can, but our lines end up the same.

You need to hug that curbing all the way up the hill. The crest will obviously lighten the front, but shouldn't be a huge issue unless you are carrying serious speed up the hill. If you stay far left up the hill, you can throttle manage or LIGHTLY press the rear brake and be totally fine. When you crest, too often, people are aiming for the curbing and the grass inside on 10b. You should apex this curbing of course, but instead of aiming inside, aim outside for the grass between 10b and 11. This will carry you wide and allow a solid drive down the hill and through 10b.

I see guys rolling out too much in 10b which allows for a great passing area. They will apex and roll off and go wide left to setup for 11. This is where being left up the hill has an advantage. You can swing down and be driving while they roll off and pass under or right of them between 10b and 11 all while carrying speed at the crest of 11.

That turn is a drive corner for sure! Under load, the front will be light and in race pace mode, you will lift the front there. Most often, you will get a slight wiggle, but carry the drive all the way to the yellow curbing on exit.
So it looks as if my first initial thought was somewhat in the right direction. The fast guys shift between 9 and 10. I don't... and as I said before, if I shift a gear the problem goes away but I don't feel as much drive. I guess I will have to be less of a sissy and go even faster but in a higher gear. My lap times are around 1:40 give or take on a good tow or traffic. I am trying to get into the 1:30's

More practice..... Thanks again for everyone's insight.
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Old 11-05-2012, 07:47 AM   #27
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Re: Keeping the rear solid on landing

And... Imma only add rear brake if I need it. I don't think I will. I have been over these crests many times in 3rd gear without a need of the rear brake, only the front comes up. And I am cool with that.
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