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Old 11-17-2012, 04:06 PM   #21
MELK-MAN
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Re: rear tire kick out

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefSmokeDawg View Post
With the axle that far back, the bike isn't gonna turn too well. So shorten the wheelbase, or try lowering the front ride height a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if you're running out of tire cause you're trying to lean so far to make the bike turn.
i just don't buy that, with all due respect!
a bike should turn regardless of the axle position if the bike is otherwise set up well. As i discussed in the earlier post, moving it back or forward may help in one aspect or another depending, but come on.. we are talking about a street bike. It's not likely most would even notice the difference of the axle being forward or back. Now when you add sticky competition tires, lots of throttle and rpm, lots of lean angle, and high speed, and a pretty good racer, THEN maybe we would be able to have someone say more times than not "yes, i could tell the axle was back all the way that session".. and then "yes, i could tell you move it up that session"..
The original poster is likely NOT that person (with all due respect to the op).

and need some proof that a bike turns with the axle all the way back?? My Daytona vid that i posted was 16/41 gearing and a 114 link chain. That is ALLLLL the way back brother, and that bike turned pretty darn good. The International Horseshoe at DIS is likely the tightest turn in the South East. Turn 8 at Homestead is a close 2nd.
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Old 11-18-2012, 02:51 PM   #22
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Re: rear tire kick out

Another thing to consider is that having the axle back further should increase rear grip. This is because there is technically more weight transfer to the rear under acceleration.....

But we are also talking about a gear ratio conversion to which increases mechanical torque and also increases acceleration. The OP is simply 100% getting throttle greedy and breaking the tires adhesion limits.

To the OP, getting on the gas out of corners doesn't mean yanking the throttle back. It simply means opening it up and gradually adding more. Smooth is fast and safe. Aggressive is a fast way to find the limits of anything.
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:11 PM   #23
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Re: rear tire kick out

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke geis View Post
Another thing to consider is that having the axle back further should increase rear grip. This is because there is technically more weight transfer to the rear under acceleration.....

But we are also talking about a gear ratio conversion to which increases mechanical torque and also increases acceleration. The OP is simply 100% getting throttle greedy and breaking the tires adhesion limits.

To the OP, getting on the gas out of corners doesn't mean yanking the throttle back. It simply means opening it up and gradually adding more. Smooth is fast and safe. Aggressive is a fast way to find the limits of anything.

Uhhh... Talk to a drag racer about that and see what they say. It works the opposite actually. With a longer length of the swingarm, more of the weight of the bike and rider are centered over the front wheel, so the rear is easier to break loose. That's why that video with the R1 drifting (picture above) has an extended swingarm.
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:43 PM   #24
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Re: rear tire kick out

Quote:
Originally Posted by MELK-MAN View Post
i just don't buy that, with all due respect!
a bike should turn regardless of the axle position if the bike is otherwise set up well. As i discussed in the earlier post, moving it back or forward may help in one aspect or another depending, but come on.. we are talking about a street bike. It's not likely most would even notice the difference of the axle being forward or back. Now when you add sticky competition tires, lots of throttle and rpm, lots of lean angle, and high speed, and a pretty good racer, THEN maybe we would be able to have someone say more times than not "yes, i could tell the axle was back all the way that session".. and then "yes, i could tell you move it up that session"..
The original poster is likely NOT that person (with all due respect to the op).

and need some proof that a bike turns with the axle all the way back?? My Daytona vid that i posted was 16/41 gearing and a 114 link chain. That is ALLLLL the way back brother, and that bike turned pretty darn good. The International Horseshoe at DIS is likely the tightest turn in the South East. Turn 8 at Homestead is a close 2nd.

Are you talking about a 99-02 Greg? Cause if you put a 70 series front on it, then move the axle all the way back, the bike runs wiiiiiiiiiide. Unless you've moved the forks for the tire height change, that real long wheelbase is terrible. The forks on the 02 are a 1/2 inch longer than 03-04's. It really can get to be a poor turning setup. And it's difficult to get the bike to exit on a nice straight line without significant preload change, and in my particular case, I'm on the wrong end of the spring rate to get it to really work well for me. Way too much squat AND poor turning.

On the 08, I've run it all the forward and back and it will make it around the track either way, but it's still very noticeable on how sharp it turns.

I'm specifically referring to the 99-02 in this thread. Not the 3rd gen.
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:52 PM   #25
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Re: rear tire kick out

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefSmokeDawg View Post
Are you talking about a 99-02 Greg? Cause if you put a 70 series front on it, then move the axle all the way back, the bike runs wiiiiiiiiiide. Unless you've moved the forks for the tire height change, that real long wheelbase is terrible. The forks on the 02 are a 1/2 inch longer than 03-04's. It really can get to be a poor turning setup. And it's difficult to get the bike to exit on a nice straight line without significant preload change, and in my particular case, I'm on the wrong end of the spring rate to get it to really work well for me. Way too much squat AND poor turning.

On the 08, I've run it all the forward and back and it will make it around the track either way, but it's still very noticeable on how sharp it turns.

I'm specifically referring to the 99-02 in this thread. Not the 3rd gen.
But is that likely to be caused after he installs shorter gearing? He didn't mention making any other changes to the bike IIRC.
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:24 PM   #26
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Re: rear tire kick out

i have never ridden any r6 older than an 03 model, but i just find it surprising that moving the axle forward or back on that older bike would make much difference. who knows though..
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Old 11-18-2012, 04:26 PM   #27
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Re: rear tire kick out

Quote:
Originally Posted by pickpocket293 View Post
But is that likely to be caused after he installs shorter gearing? He didn't mention making any other changes to the bike IIRC.
He's saying it was put on and the axle is all the way back now, if you move the axle over an inch back or more, it's hella noticeable.

I interpreted it that they the chain kit was just installed. So who put it on, made it a link too long. That 1 link is easily an inch or more on the axle position/wheelbase. I can see it being that big a difference for him to make a post about.

Maybe I've misinterpretted the OP then. I read tires plural that are sliding. If he's just loosing the rear on the gas, and he's upright and sticking his leg out like a dirt bike rider, I reneg. But the axle all the way back and possibly not changing the front ride height makes that bike all fcuked up.

If he's a knee dragger and put his knee down to keep the bike up, then I would hope he shortens the wheelbase up so the bike turns as it used to and he doesn't get hurt.

If the OP is solely about him spinning a rear tire one time, then he's not used to the gearing change and how much easier the tire spins or his tire pressure could be shitty too.

I interpretted it as a new chronic issue of both tires pushing/sliding, and it ain't gonna happen without poor BP and a ton of lean and running out of tire. So maybe this change in geometry was enough for the bike to not do what it does every other time he has had it all the way over, etc etc..
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:27 AM   #28
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Re: rear tire kick out

there is simply
no..
darn..
way..
.. that axle position has anything to do with the original posters problem.

the difference in 1 link (well 2 really as you can't do just 1 link) would put the axle position from the 1st mark, to almost the 8th mark on the axle adjuster. (of an 03 or later, i don't know what the adjusters look like on a 02 or newer).
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Last edited by MELK-MAN; 11-19-2012 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:02 AM   #29
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Re: rear tire kick out

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaka433 View Post
what im asking is if moving the tire farther back effect cornering.?
The answer is YES to this question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MELK-MAN View Post
there is simply
no..
darn..
way..
.. that axle position has anything to do with the original posters problem.

the difference in 1 link (well 2 really as you can't do just 1 link) would put the axle position from the 1st mark, to almost the 8th mark on the axle adjuster. (of an 03 or later, i don't know what the adjusters look like on a 02 or newer).

At this point Greg, the OP is nowhere to be found whatsoever to even determine if it's both tires pushing or rear just spinning up as he squids along.

The difference in a couple links on a chain is VERY noticeable when you move the axle an inch or more. It's noticeable when you move it for one tooth change.

Is it this guys problem? At this point I have no clue. But if he's on the tall front tire and never made any ride height adjustment up front, then sent the axle all the way back, I wouldn't be surprised if he complains about a lot of things. I know my 02 is too long and turns like shit when the axle is far back. Combine an improper front geometry by 6mm or so at least, then stretch the bike 2 inches from what he had it at and you don't think it's gonna make a difference?

It will and does.

Is it his problem? I have no idea at this point anymore since his fedback stopped and sucked to begin with.

But I'm tellin you if I take my 02 and stretch it out like that it sucks at turning and i've got the front setup great on the bike, etc. His geometry could be so jacked up that the bike leans and leans and leans and I'd personally ride it into the ground if I wasn't expecting any change.
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:38 AM   #30
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Re: rear tire kick out

I mean no disrespect Chief, but I had to run a 14T/47T on my bike for a little bit because a company sent me the wrong sprocket, so I ran my wheel all the way back on the adjuster (So I can add a larger front sprocket and not have to add links), and between the forward setting, and the rear setting, I really felt no difference with the handling/turning of my bike on the street.

I've never ridden on the track (Hope to change that this upcoming year), and I definitely am not educated in how stuff works like wheel adjustment, but just from personal street experience, I don't see how it could affect him to where it's noticeable.
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