There are soo many threads guys...please put them all here and I'll get them all answered. No need to have sooo many threads scattered out. I have used this on our bike extensively and spent a lot of time going over things with bazzaz along with prior wideband use in cars. I'll get all the questions answered and if I don't know them we'll get the answers straight from Bazzaz themselves...
So whats the pro's and con's with the bazzaz compared to the power commander 3
In all honesty it's not even fair to compare the pc3 against the Bazzaz as they are so different. The PC3 will alter you fueling based on the map that is inside it. It also only controls 4 injectors.
Now the Bazzaz will control your fueling based on the map inside it the same as the pc3. If your bike has 8 injectors though the bazzaz will control all 8. Now here is where the arguement is. Some say that controlling the lower 4 injectors is good enough. To understand this lets explain how it works first. You have 4 lower injectors that sit closer to the engine. You then have 4 upper injectors that set several inches higher then the lowers. The manufacturers designed the bike so that when you are around 0k-8k rpm depending on the bike (suzuki, yamaha, honda, etc) the lower injectors do most of the fueling for the bike. The upper do not do nearly as much. Now when you hit that target rpm of around 6k-8k depending on the make the lowers pull back and do not do nearly as much fueling and the uppers kick in and do most of the fueling. Why did the manufacturers do this? Because at those rpms this give sthe fuel and air more time to mix effectively and give a better mixture. So now if you can only alter the lower injectors with your fuel controller and you need to give more fuel you must give it in the lowers only. With the bazzaz when you add more fuel it keeps it the way the manufacturers designed it and it adds fuel the same way the oem set up does and it adds fuel mostly to the uppers in the upper rpms. That is the physical difference in the actual fuel controller. Bazzaz believes the same thing the manufacturers do on why the uppers should do most of the fueling in the upper rpms, but Dynojet believes it doesn't matter and just adds to the cost of the fuel controller to have the exhaust harness to control the upper injectors.
Now here is why it's not fair to compare the two. The bazzaz has the zafm self mapper which will log your air to fuel mixture for you and tell you if you're too lean or too rich and where you're too lean or too rich. in the software you can state what air to fuel ratio you want to tune it to. Most do 13.0 or 13.2 for the target air to fuel ratio. So the bazzaz software takes the logs of your exhausts and then looks at the air to fuel ratio you want and it does the math for you and then suggests changes to the map in order to hit your target air to fuel ratio. This is very much like what a dyno does in logging the exhaust gasses to tell if you're lean or rich, in fact they use the same sensor but you have it in your exhaust. The nice thing of logging in this way is that your ram air box is actually pressurized as you're logging data as you ride it and pressurize the airbox where with a dyno the bike is sitting there and the airbox is not pressurized.
So you can actually tune your own bike with the Bazzaz unlike the pc3 where to get a good tune or know how well it's working you would have to go to a dyno and pay them to have them check your bike and then you have to trust that dyno operator knows his shit. With the bazzaz you control the tuning of your bike and you can tune it as well as you want and even retune your bike should you move locations, change your mods, etc.
I have read the PC V is supposed to be able to control all 8 injectors via an optional unit. Also that the PC V has the ability to make changes to the map automatically without user approval like with the Bazzaz.
I understand that it may or may not be compatible with bikes before 09 but ignoring that fact, what advantage does the Bazzaz have over it?
The pcV and the bazzaz each offer different pro's and con's.
Yes, the pcV can control 8 injectors with an add on. Bazzaz didn't do any auto tuning design as they want the end user to approve the changes that way they can see if there are any anomalies such as a failing sensor or a wide variety of other things that can cause issues in the tuning "system". the pcV has some parameters you can set so that the autotuning won't apply anything like say 20% or more compared to what you already have. this keeps it from going completely haywire if a sensor fails, but to a certain degree it will still mess your map up until you catch it, etc. Different theories there and each person can make up their own mind on what they want. Each allows you to switch between two maps with a handlebar switch. The auto tune modules are not out yet so there isn't any other "hard data" to really go by yet.
Another main difference between the two is the fact that it controls 4 injectors right out of the box with the option to control 8 with the add on and the auto tuning. Where the bazzaz controls 8 right out of the box, but you have to approve the changes before it alters your hard map. The sensors don't fail often, but they do fail. personally I wouldn't run around on auto tune all the time for that very reason. the best way would be to let the auto tune build your map then save it and get out of auto tune so you don't have to worry about a failing sensor. You can turn the auto tune on anytime you want to make sure the map is still good, new mods, etc. The only difference is with the bazzaz you have to apply the changes that it recommends. I keep the logging portion of the bazzaz on all the time on our bike. I basically download it once a month to see if anything new is happening in terms of temp changes, etc. If i don't see any real changes i normally just apply the suggestions, clear the log and move on. I like knowing that it's not changing the hard map just in case something goes bad with the sensor. Personally I want to know when the hard map is being changed and know for a fact that it's not being done based on an error somewhere. I could ride around for 6 months and know that my good map is still there.
Just my personal opinion though so if I run a pcv to play with it i'll use the auto tune to build a map then get out of auto tune which then makes it very much like the bazzaz in that respect except that i have to approve the suggestions with the bazzaz which I personally like doing as I don't trust any software to keep my bike tuned perfectly all the time. Fact is that dynojets stuff fails at times, bazzaz fails at times, and sensors fail at times and if they do I want to know about it right away. if my bazzaz hard map goes out i'm going to notice it as the bike will run like ass right away.
both are great units and it just depends on what you're after personally...the biggest difference is the 8 injectors out of the box and the fact you have to hit a button to apply the changes with one unit where the other will just do it.
There are other minor differences, but these are the major ones that will affect those who read this. Those who will be affected by the minor ones, racers, etc probably won't be reading this and will already have done their research. For example the pcV can actually tune each cyl individually if you get 4 widebands and put one in each cyl, but for 99.9% of the people this isn't relevant so I only went over what will affect 99.9% of the people. most people won't get this detailed and if you do want to then I would recommend the Motec any day of the week to those people as it's the most advanced out PERIOD, but it also has a much higher learning curve and things get very complicated and that's why mostly professional race team meachics deal with it, etc. Amar bazzaz actually LOVES the Motec, but he realizes it's not for 99.9999999% of the population and nor are it's features. If you're into super high end stuff check out the Motec though. It has been around for years and sets the bar for high end electronics for bikes/cars.
If I run the pcV at any time to play with it i'll surely run it with 8 injectors as I do believe in the way the manufacturers set it that at higher rpms the uppers should be doing most of the work. On the dyno you might not notice a difference between controlling 4 or 8, but it's not argued that the farther away it lets things mix better. with air/fuel or even with adding nitrous, etc..
If your target air to fuel ratio is 10.9 then yes it's out of wack as that is SUPER RICH lol. Do you have gas flowing out of your exhaust? 12.8 through 13.2 is where most people will want to be. It's easier to see how good of a map you have by showing a picture of your fuel map and your last log that shows a lot of cells that have been logged, ie a good 1 hour or so worth of riding. Then I can see how good your map is. (edit) Just saw you had it in offline mode just confirm what your target afr is and show a picture of both the map and the last longer logging session and then I can comment.
It will control 8 injectors if your bike has 8 injectors and that is the only difference then. As I stated some think controling only the lower 4 is good enough and others believe in running the uppers at the higher rpms so the fuel/air mixes better and that keeps it the same way yamaha designed it. It all depends on what you believe in that area. If you're not going to get a custom dyno tune then the nice thing about the pc3 is that there are many more maps out there then there are for the bazzaz.
Okay, I just loaded my older map and turned the bike on, engine running. This is apparently what my AFR is at even though I set it at 13.2...I guess I just need to keep logging to try and get closer to my target, correct?
Oh and I just tried to run my bike with that other map and the thing wouldn't go pass 6 grand. Felt like I was hitting a rev limiter. I guess the map got that way from bad logging, but how do you think? Like I showed you in that message I sent you a while ago, it suggested in all the cells, +17%.