Hello, what does it take to turn more w/ less lean angle at high-speeds? - Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums
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post #1 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
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Hello, what does it take to turn more w/ less lean angle at high-speeds?

What suspension settings are we looking for?

My bike feels very solid and stable but I don't think my settings are correct.. I feel like I need to lean too far unless this is how it's supposed to be?
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post #2 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 08:58 PM
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Re: Hello, what does it take to turn more w/ less lean angle at high-speeds?

more hanging off.

suspension settings are reading tire wear and improving feel of the bike for the rider. the sag and all can have an effect on your lean angle. if the springs are not strong enough for your weight the bike will sag a lot in the rear and throw the handling off.

there is no one setting fits all answer. it comes down to rider. how fast you can ride. next is tires. it comes down to knowing what the tire wear is doing. check out dave moss tuning videos on youtube.

you'd be surprised how little you are hanging off and leaning if you see some pictures of yourself. it takes some getting used to leaning. the whole knee on the ground thing is for gauging how far you are leaned. most of us stop when we feel it touch. and in a picture we're like wtf, i'm barely leaning.

when you are doing it this much, you're at the limit. btw, don't try this on a stock bike with consumer grade tires. the max a normal bike can do is about 50 degrees. that picture is about 64 degrees. and it's probably a really slow corner. like under 50mph.
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Last edited by yamahacrazy; 01-04-2019 at 09:06 PM.
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post #3 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-04-2019, 10:01 PM
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Re: Hello, what does it take to turn more w/ less lean angle at high-speeds?

Tire profile seems to have a drastic impact. Street riding conditions wear and widen the center tread. I used to think more lean was required on the new tire but with the latest set of new tires, had realized it was the opposite. Despite the fact that the new tire was closer to a V shape, versus the U shape of the old, I found I was leaning less at the same speeds. I could easily add 10mph on the new. Obviously you can't knee-drag in office clothes so I'd use the scuff line on my front and rear to gauge how much room I had left to lean for the next time I went through those same corners. The scuff line on the rear always comes much closer than the front. My route to work recently changed though. No more daily fun.
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post #4 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 04:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Hello, what does it take to turn more w/ less lean angle at high-speeds?

I understand but if you take the same Exact lean angles at a constant 100mph will both bikes turn exactly the same radius given their wheel base is identical and ride body position and weight distribution of the limbs and body/head etc.? I'm saying Everything pretty much identical including tires. The difference is bike design like track vs street vs harley vs enduro, etc.

I know the separation would be underpower and underbraking as well as say the washout grip limits of a heavier bike but Any bike can pretty much do 100mph on a sweeper. Given the traction isn't slipping at all and everything is good will the bikes have the same exact turning radius around the bend?

Now my other question would be say you take someone on the same bike like an R6, same lean angles same bikes, same everything around a 100mph on a constant sweeper bend, both riders have their head all the way out towards the inside of the turn like how it should be w/ elbow dropped but the difference between is one rider is heavily weighted on the inner peg closer to the ground and the other has their weight heavily weighted on the peg closest to the sky. Would it make Any difference in turning tighter/wider? I understand if you weight the outside you have more traction but I'm saying in the dry summer w/ no chance of it slipping out.

Last edited by AntDX316; 01-05-2019 at 04:11 AM.
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post #5 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 04:43 AM
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Re: Hello, what does it take to turn more w/ less lean angle at high-speeds?

From very limited experience as a feather weight street rider, unless it's a banked turn, at particularly high speeds you're not going to rapidly lean the bike unless you hang off of it. The higher centrifugal forces of the faster rotating wheels really fight you at high speeds. Prepositioning improves reaction time while hanging off a little more than is necessary can improve precision.

For lower speeds where you're able to do so, the only reason I think one would sit on top of it in a stable corner is to preposition themselves for the corner exit and/or subsequent corner in the opposite direction. Perhaps it does decrease the chance of "washing out" but this may be more a result of the improved reaction time, versus traction. The nanosecond you detect a slip in grip, you're able to immediately affect a change in lean angle because you're already prepositioned to do so. If you're committed or over committed then your ability to react is drastically slowed.
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post #6 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-05-2019, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Hello, what does it take to turn more w/ less lean angle at high-speeds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Intuit View Post
From very limited experience as a feather weight street rider, unless it's a banked turn, at particularly high speeds you're not going to rapidly lean the bike unless you hang off of it. The higher centrifugal forces of the faster rotating wheels really fight you at high speeds. Prepositioning improves reaction time while hanging off a little more than is necessary can improve precision.

For lower speeds where you're able to do so, the only reason I think one would sit on top of it in a stable corner is to preposition themselves for the corner exit and/or subsequent corner in the opposite direction. Perhaps it does decrease the chance of "washing out" but this may be more a result of the improved reaction time, versus traction. The nanosecond you detect a slip in grip, you're able to immediately affect a change in lean angle because you're already prepositioned to do so. If you're committed or over committed then your ability to react is drastically slowed.
yeah, I know if you have your weight on the outside peg and the front wheel lifts you pretty much cannot steer unless you've weighted the inner peg given the bike is up and down and not leaned where your body is on the tank closest to the sky. I do not have track experience so I do not know. I would always just weight the outside to be safe as there is more traction loaded onto the tires from the top but when upgrading from Supersport to Superbike one day.. doing it the Supersport way may lead into a crash just as you can ride a bicycle or slower motorcycles w/o counter-steering at all but when you upgrade to Supersport class and you don't counter-steer you are done.

I just know if my head is directly centerline w/ the bike and the ground the angle is like 45 degrees. When I lean way off the bike into the inner part of the turn it doesn't really feel like it cranks over as far. I just think it makes no sense how it matters where you put your head if you don't have your lower body correctly weighted on the bike given we aren't going for top acceleration and taking into consideration aero drag. In the winter w/ full winter apparal, the air drag is like dragging a parachute behind you at high-speeds. 150+

I just lacked the confidence to lean as much as I do in the summer. I could do 120+ Easy on some sweepers w/ shorts on but in the winter even doing 100mph made me feel unsafe but I didn't have my head way out into the inner part of the corner as I always usually do. If the sweeper isn't so great you can stay tucked in the center for good aero but I never really looked at the angle until lately. I'm not sure if I'm really cranked that far over but when my head is far out I don't notice. The closer we are to not crashing the better.

Everyone look at this video.

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I mean the amount of riding skill I have now compared to what I was imagining when I was on the Honda Rebel is amazing. I'd just be happy doing 50 degrees and no more in the dry and no more than say 20 degrees in the wet.. I said I would never do triple digits but lmao, it gets there fast and is stable as a rock at very high-speeds. You can see and experience Way more than any other vehicle. The experience imo should be worth 6 figures or more but miraculously it's not. I clear my mind from nearly everything pride related and just go. What matters is you are riding right when you are under full throttle and weaving for a bit. Some people die or worse doing that and less, way less which makes it more worth it in a way. It's like running in park w/ people in it. You just run avoiding people properly lol. I can't film myself when riding fast because it would distract me trying to look cool on camera that I might neglect something important because I would risk more.

Last edited by AntDX316; 01-05-2019 at 05:26 AM.
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post #7 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 12:38 PM
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Re: Hello, what does it take to turn more w/ less lean angle at high-speeds?

There is only one answer to questions like this. Get yourself to the track.
All of this speculation and opinion hurts my brain. There are no easy answers. The bike, rider, tires, track surface, gear, throttle, suspension, tire pressure, temperature, etc. etc. etc. etc. has an effect on your ride.
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post #8 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Hello, what does it take to turn more w/ less lean angle at high-speeds?

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Originally Posted by FZ1guy View Post
There is only one answer to questions like this. Get yourself to the track.
All of this speculation and opinion hurts my brain. There are no easy answers. The bike, rider, tires, track surface, gear, throttle, suspension, tire pressure, temperature, etc. etc. etc. etc. has an effect on your ride.
The idea is to know what would happen Before hitting the track. My current biggest fear is, if I get on a Superbike and the front lifts in a turn, will the bike continuing turning or go wide and I crash? This is where I'm not sure where my body weight should actually be. If you get it wrong, you crash or die. I weight the outside peg but I really think it's all about the weight on the tank but I'm not entirely sure. I'm not entirely sure if the weight should be on the inner peg but I think this is corner specific. If you do the wrong thing once, you are done. Some people don't ride fast enough for it to matter and those that do who aren't that good crash to sometimes never ride again.
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post #9 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 05:54 PM
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Re: Hello, what does it take to turn more w/ less lean angle at high-speeds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AntDX316 View Post
The idea is to know what would happen Before hitting the track. My current biggest fear is, if I get on a Superbike and the front lifts in a turn, will the bike continuing turning or go wide and I crash? This is where I'm not sure where my body weight should actually be. If you get it wrong, you crash or die. I weight the outside peg but I really think it's all about the weight on the tank but I'm not entirely sure. I'm not entirely sure if the weight should be on the inner peg but I think this is corner specific. If you do the wrong thing once, you are done. Some people don't ride fast enough for it to matter and those that do who aren't that good crash to sometimes never ride again.
actually physics determines what happens. the wheels act like a gyro and hold the bike upright. when the front lifts in a corner after you've passed the apex, nothing happens except the front lifts. it's a physical miracle. it may or may not run wide a little. in my experience it doesn't do anything except come off the ground.
if you're accelerating before the apex, you're gonna wash the front out lol.

it's not as complicated as you're making it out to be. just go do it and get your feet wet. you don't have to be rossi on your first day. go ride and take your time to get comfortable. you are not going to be pushing the bike's or the tire's limits. when you start getting more comfortable and the pace picks up then you can start asking the org's control riders for some help. they'll start off by getting you around the track on the correct line. because you are not going to be at the bike's limits.
just remember to roll on the throttle, don't open it all the way until you're almost upright, and ease on the brakes to load the front tire then you can squeeze the shit out of them.

Last edited by yamahacrazy; 01-07-2019 at 06:04 PM.
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post #10 of 38 (permalink) Old 01-07-2019, 06:05 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Hello, what does it take to turn more w/ less lean angle at high-speeds?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yamahacrazy View Post
actually physics determines what happens. the wheels act like a gyro and hold the bike upright. when the front lifts in a corner after you've passed the apex, nothing happens except the front lifts. it's a physical miracle. it may or may not run wide a little. in my experience it doesn't do anything except come off the ground.
if you're accelerating before the apex, you're gonna wash the front out lol.

it's not as complicated as you're making it out to be. just go do it and get your feet wet. you don't have to be rossi on your first day. go ride and take your time to get comfortable. you are not going to be pushing the bike's or the tire's limits. when you start getting more comfortable and the pace picks up then you can start asking the org's control riders for some help. they'll start off by getting you around the track on the correct line. because you are not going to be at the bike's limits.
If the wheel goes in the air and you turn it, it will still continue to lean the bike or not? One day if I ever get on track w/ a very powerful bike it shouldn't be my last lol.

Just think about it, you lean hard into a corner accelerating hard going to track out then ready to stand the bike up but then the front wheel raises and you end up not turning, you go wide and crash hard. Is it like this if you don't weight the bike properly? The R6 doesn't rise like this in 2nd gear or higher. I've high-sided in 1 so I don't really rise the bike while in any turn. Just as R3 riders don't know what it's like to high-side ever as their bike isn't powerful enough to do so.

I think the people who get to this "level" developed the experience to weight naturally. For novices who go straight from say beginning to Pro power this can lead to harmful consequences if not understood and done properly. Also other issues like high-siding under braking but I'm sure I would know how this would feel like to not be too much of an issue.

Last edited by AntDX316; 01-07-2019 at 06:07 PM.
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