2018 R6 traction control. - Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 07:55 AM Thread Starter
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2018 R6 traction control.

Not sure if this is the right section, but I was wondering if anyone could clarify what the traction control on the 2017+ R6s do.

I have a 2018 I bought this past summer and it has been great. The one thing I don’t understand (and this isn’t just for R6s, but many of the other 600s with TC) is what “regular” TC does and what advantages it provides.

I regularly hear that lean sensitive/IMU TC is the best because it can potentially save you in a corner or when leaned over. If regular TC only works when you’re straight up, 90 degrees perpendicular to the road, isn’t it essentially useless? I mean even when I’m not in a sharp corner, I’m usually leaning at least a little bit.

At what point does non IMU TC not work? When you’re 89 degrees? 70? 50? 45? I guess I’m just wondering what I should expect from the TC on my R6 and what advantages it will provide me, but the only info I can ever find online is “non IMU TC only works when you are straight up”.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 05:47 PM
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Re: 2018 R6 traction control.

it works leaned over. the bike has no idea how far you are leaned...lack of the IMU remember? it kicks in when the rear wheel speed and front wheel speed differ. that's all it knows.
the R1 with the IMU however knows how far it's leaned over, the wheel speed difference, if the rear of the bike is sliding sideways and how high the front or rear wheel is in the air.
the R6 honestly doesn't need that advanced of a tc system. it just doesn't have the power to spin or slide a modern hypersport tire so easily that it will catch you off guard like a modern 1000 where tc is practically a must for 97% of the guys that own one. now if you slipped on a set of touring tires on an R6 sure, it has enough hp to lite those up.

also, keep in mind, neither system can stop a front wheel slip while leaned over. in fact, that doesn't even exist on any motorcycle except for that prototype bike with the rocket boosters to stop a front end slide. (yes it's a real thing)


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Last edited by yamahacrazy; 12-13-2018 at 05:59 PM.
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-13-2018, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yamahacrazy View Post
it works leaned over. the bike has no idea how far you are leaned...lack of the IMU remember? it kicks in when the rear wheel speed and front wheel speed differ. that's all it knows.
the R1 with the IMU however knows how far it's leaned over, the wheel speed difference, if the rear of the bike is sliding sideways and how high the front or rear wheel is in the air.
the R6 honestly doesn't need that advanced of a tc system. it just doesn't have the power to spin or slide a modern hypersport tire so easily that it will catch you off guard like a modern 1000 where tc is practically a must for 97% of the guys that own one. now if you slipped on a set of touring tires on an R6 sure, it has enough hp to lite those up.

also, keep in mind, neither system can stop a front wheel slip while leaned over. in fact, that doesn't even exist on any motorcycle except for that prototype bike with the rocket boosters to stop a front end slide. (yes it's a real thing)


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So the R6 TC works when leaned over but is maybe not able to determine the exact contact patch of the tire because it’s leaned over and lacks an IMU? Is it just a less effective form of traction control?

Again, many of the articles I’ve read suggests it only works “upright”, and that has always seemed pretty useless since that’s when you have the most traction (unless you hit a wet man hole cover or oil patch).

When you say an R6 doesn’t have the power to light up the tires, what exactly do you mean? Like say you’re coming out of a corner at 40 degree lean and you open the throttle too hard while at 12k rpm with the stock tires. Will the R6’s TC do anything for you? Is it that the IMU TC is more predictive and regular is more reactive?
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-14-2018, 05:11 PM
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Re: 2018 R6 traction control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seezur View Post
When you say an R6 doesnít have the power to light up the tires, what exactly do you mean? Like say youíre coming out of a corner at 40 degree lean and you open the throttle too hard while at 12k rpm with the stock tires. Will the R6ís TC do anything for you? Is it that the IMU TC is more predictive and regular is more reactive?
a well tuned MR12 fueled stock motor R6 will make about 46 ft lbs of torque on a good day. At around 11,000 rpms. Peak power is made around 15,000 rpms. Basically you have a 4,000 rpm window in which to operate the bike effectively. Lots of gear shifter rowing.

You seem to think "traction control" is going to save something like poor riding skills or loss of traction. It will not. In dry conditions you wont really notice it working. In wet conditions maybe. Many times it works on decel more than accel.

Before ANY of that is relevant... you really have to be able to ride the bike at an club expert level pace.

Take something like a quickshifter. Can it lower lap times? Sure it can anywhere 3-7/10ths all things equal. Can one still run fast laps without one? Yeap.
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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-14-2018, 06:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seezur View Post
When you say an R6 doesn’t have the power to light up the tires, what exactly do you mean? Like say you’re coming out of a corner at 40 degree lean and you open the throttle too hard while at 12k rpm with the stock tires. Will the R6’s TC do anything for you? Is it that the IMU TC is more predictive and regular is more reactive?
a well tuned MR12 fueled stock motor R6 will make about 46 ft lbs of torque on a good day. At around 11,000 rpms. Peak power is made around 15,000 rpms. Basically you have a 4,000 rpm window in which to operate the bike effectively. Lots of gear shifter rowing.

You seem to think "traction control" is going to save something like poor riding skills or loss of traction. It will not. In dry conditions you wont really notice it working. In wet conditions maybe. Many times it works on decel more than accel.

Before ANY of that is relevant... you really have to be able to ride the bike at an club expert level pace.

Take something like a quickshifter. Can it lower lap times? Sure it can anywhere 3-7/10ths all things equal. Can one still run fast laps without one? Yeap.
In thinking about it more maybe I’m confusing TC and stability assist, as is seen in IMU bikes and most cars.

A lot of times it seems like the terms are used interchangeably but after reading more it makes more sense.

Bikes with IMUs (KTM has a good video of this) can basically make you immune to many rider induced crashes. There’s videos of people grabbing a fistful of brake in the rain, leaned far over, and not crashing. In those scenarios wheel lockup could be the same issue but the extra sensors must allow the bike to correct itself using the other info.

With TC it must be that while the difference in wheel speeds are detectable, since the other parameters are not, it can only do its best to retard the difference in speed, straight up or leaned over. So it’ll still help in regaining traction to an extent, but isn’t nearly as foolproof as IMU units.

That would make sense to me at least.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-15-2018, 05:08 AM
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Re: 2018 R6 traction control.

TC on the R6 is just for the loss of rear wheel traction. It will cut down power until the rear wheel regains traction, at least in theory. There are many scenarios that can lead to losing rear wheel traction. But that is all TC is good for on this bike.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 12-15-2018, 08:08 AM
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Re: 2018 R6 traction control.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seezur View Post
So the R6 TC works when leaned over but is maybe not able to determine the exact contact patch of the tire because it’s leaned over and lacks an IMU? Is it just a less effective form of traction control?

Again, many of the articles I’ve read suggests it only works “upright”, and that has always seemed pretty useless since that’s when you have the most traction (unless you hit a wet man hole cover or oil patch).

When you say an R6 doesn’t have the power to light up the tires, what exactly do you mean? Like say you’re coming out of a corner at 40 degree lean and you open the throttle too hard while at 12k rpm with the stock tires. Will the R6’s TC do anything for you? Is it that the IMU TC is more predictive and regular is more reactive?
are you sure they weren't talking about ABS?

when I say lite up the tires I mean spin it up where it's losing traction so much it's leaving marks on the pavement. yeah the tc prevent this. it will also in theory save your ass if you run through sand or dirt on the road. it may not save the front but on a low traction surface if you open the throttle too abruptly, it will prevent a slip. the imu is for a higher level of detection and control. I would assume the bike with the imu can react faster too. the regular tc is just a less advanced system. it still works just not as well. it's usually more on/off feeling and not as good at prevention. the TC system on the R6 may also be monitoring the throttle opening angle. so it knows how far you have it open. I believe the R1 does also.

have you seen any of the video's about the R1's system on Yamaha's site? starting with the imu video it shows you exactly how the tc system works on the R1

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Last edited by yamahacrazy; 12-15-2018 at 08:36 AM.
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 05-30-2019, 01:10 PM
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Re: 2018 R6 traction control.

Does anyone know or think the R6 will ever get an IMU? Would be awesome to have all the same electronics as the R1...
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