crashing aint so bad
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: santa barbara, ca.
Bike: 2005 red r6
Re: passing outside on a turn
It is difficult to pass on the outside of turns unless they are long sweepers. However you are describing the exit of turns as being the issue, not the turn itself. The same rules apply on a motorcycle as it does to the size of a circle. Remember that if you have 2 circles, one small and one big. If you were to travel the circumference of each circle in the same amount of time you would have to go faster to travel the bigger circle.
The same principal applies to riding a bike through a turn. If you are running a wider line, you are already traveling faster than your friend just to keep up. If you were to follow directly behind him you would be going slower and be able to still keep up. So why does he pull away from you if you are already going faster. Your wide line will still pretty much end on the same piece of tarmac that your friend will. He started inside, but as the turn comes to an end he will be able to widen his line assuming he hit his apex. This means that he is probably on the gas a little sooner than you. Since your wider line actually puts you deeper into the turn off the power, he will quickly and easily make up the difference in speed just being able to get on the gas sooner. Not to mention he already has the desired piece of real estate.
Lets apply the logic. Your friend is traveling the same distance as you at a slower speed in the same amount of time. You are traveling a line that keeps you from getting on the gas sooner than your friend. Even if you do get on the gas sooner your friend will still be able to out pull you, due to advantageous track position and being able to widen his line as he gets on the gas. Passing on the outside is the most difficult because of those basic principles. The only real exception is long sweeping turns where the higher speed can be carried around another rider. The only other exception may be in a chicane or set of esses where being on the outside at one turn exit may set you up for better entry on the next turn.
So to directly answer your question. I would consider your strong points. You are faster in general than your friend. I would either work on beating him on the brakes into turns, or following his line and try to beat him by getting on the gas sooner. Downshifting another gear may give you more pull but if you get greedy you could run out of traction. Staying in the current gear and using his line, just getting on the gas sooner will tell you more. If you are on the gas sooner you will notice it as you begin to close up on him. This added momentum can be used to out pull him once out of the turn. Now if you begin to close up on him and he pulls away as the turn opens up, then you are in to high of a gear and should consider downshifting another gear BEFORE you go into the turn. Another trick is to leave some space between you and your opponent. What you will then do is use your extra speed through the turn to carry you for better drive out. You hang back on corner entry and use the same line as your opponent. You allow yourself to carry the extra speed that you normally have into and through the turn. This will close the gap mid turn, and then you get on the gas sooner and use that as drive out of the turn. If executed properly you will slingshot past him on the exit. This approach requires some good estimation on speed vs. gap management. It will also allow some one else behind you to come underneath you on corner entry and snake your line. You have to be suave about what you do and when you do it. In most all case the trick to beating the next guy is to be on the gas sooner ( This does not mean harder ) in order to have extra drive out of turns.
Being on the gas sooner does not mean that you are going W.O.T it just means sooner. The goal is to get on the gas A.S.A.P after initiating a turn. If you have the same line and same speed as another rider and get on the gas sooner regardless of how much it is. you have a much higher chance of out driving them out of a turn. Just don't get greedy. Remember that, " too much of a good thing is still too much "........ Hope this helps.
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