What brakes? - Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums
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post #1 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-01-2012, 06:10 PM Thread Starter
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What brakes?

What brake pads are you guys running on aggressive track/race days?
Thinking of going with ebc extreme pro
Recommendations?

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post #2 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-01-2012, 07:17 PM
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Re: What brakes?

unless you are running in the middle of the pack in the fastest group at your track days, the stockers are just fine.

The more expensive " race compound " pads do not like being pussy footed with and will actually reduce performance if not ridden to their design specifics.

To give you an idea, I am running in the top third of the fastest group of most any track day I attend. I am running stock pads and they perform just fine. I am by no means slow and I see no reason yet to go with more exotic pads. The stock pads really do perform great these days.


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post #3 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-01-2012, 07:30 PM
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Re: What brakes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alanq12 View Post
What brake pads are you guys running on aggressive track/race days?
Thinking of going with ebc extreme pro
Recommendations?
I went with Vesrah RJL, they're great! If you run a faster pace, you may want to look into the SRJL. EBC Extreme Pro's are good too, they all compare to each other, you shouldn't have an issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke geis View Post
unless you are running in the middle of the pack in the fastest group at your track days, the stockers are just fine.

The more expensive " race compound " pads do not like being pussy footed with and will actually reduce performance if not ridden to their design specifics.

To give you an idea, I am running in the top third of the fastest group of most any track day I attend. I am running stock pads and they perform just fine. I am by no means slow and I see no reason yet to go with more exotic pads. The stock pads really do perform great these days.
I don't know about that, I run intermediate pace and my stock brakes faded on me a few times at the end of the straight.


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post #4 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-01-2012, 08:08 PM
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Re: What brakes?

I use to love EBC pads but the last set I got was galfer 1003 compound and I have to say they do have more bite. took a bite out of the wallett too. but they sure were better than the EBC's
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post #5 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-01-2012, 10:50 PM
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Re: What brakes?

I run the Ferodo xrac. Not as much initial bite as the RJL's, but have better sustained stopping power under heavy braking.



Quote:
Originally Posted by luke geis View Post
unless you are running in the middle of the pack in the fastest group at your track days, the stockers are just fine.

The more expensive " race compound " pads do not like being pussy footed with and will actually reduce performance if not ridden to their design specifics.

To give you an idea, I am running in the top third of the fastest group of most any track day I attend. I am running stock pads and they perform just fine. I am by no means slow and I see no reason yet to go with more exotic pads. The stock pads really do perform great these days.
Not really true. Race pads sure won't decrease performance if not used hard. My track org taches to get suspension/brakes/tires first before all the pretty a/m stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by derffred View Post
I went with Vesrah RJL, they're great! If you run a faster pace, you may want to look into the SRJL. EBC Extreme Pro's are good too, they all compare to each other, you shouldn't have an issue.



I don't know about that, I run intermediate pace and my stock brakes faded on me a few times at the end of the straight.
It's not the pads that fade, it's the fluid. your stock fluid WILL fade at faster paces. RBF600 is the way to go for track days.. even at the race level.


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post #6 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 07:38 AM
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OP, there's 4 different aspects of brake pad performance to consider. What is more important to you will really determine which pad you will like most.

I love my extreme pros. I can say that they have a somewhat strong bite, and the overall braking force is really strong. No fading, and very hard braking without pulling the lever entirely too hard.

The ferodo xrac's from AGG2001 were awesome. No fade, and VERY consistent braking. Mild bite, predictable trail braking, and always having more brake available make these a favorite of mine and wildbill too! I hope the ZRACs come out soon for the r6. They should be a bit more bitey and right up my league on my stainless oem rotors

The four aspects to consider are:

1. Initial bite
2. Braking force/coefficient
3. Trail braking
4. Release

I would ask how each pad feels based on these aspects and decide what U want to run. I'm hoping the new setup that I have coming offers me excellent stopping force/friction, a mild initial bite, and very smooth and predictable trail braking. Iron rotors with carbon pads should be a whole new animal!


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post #7 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 10:41 AM
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Re: What brakes?

All I can say is that I know I'm faster than most, if not all of you and the stock pads work fine. If you are having issues with the stock pads it's because your doing it wrong.........
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With the more exotic compound " race pads ", there is a performance drop if not used as intended. You may not notice it, simply because you aren't using the brakes to their full potential anyway. If the pads are not up to temp they may not have the bite that they can provide, they will also start to glaze over, which also reduces over all performance. Most all companies show a graph of brake performance. It shows brake performance vs. temperature. Most of the more exotic pads will produce better braking than a stock pad at any given time, however for the pad to work at it's peak, the heat must also be higher. The drop in performance I speak of is in the pad itself, not in relation to a stock pad.

There is another drawback to using the race designed stuff. Most companies design their pads to get through only a couple, or a few race weekends. EBC specifically states that the pad should be replaced when worn to half thickness! The reason is because of extra fluid volume in the caliper can lead to a spongy lever feel.

From EBC website:

"Pads should be discarded when half worn due to increased fluid volume that will be in the piston chambers as the pad advances towards the rotor. Not doing so will lead to spongy brake feel and can result in the brake lever coming back to the bar."

Now it would take a little longer for normal track use, but combined with street use, you can see that the race pads are not intended to last very long. The EBC race pads are also not cheap. Neither are any of the other brands race stuff. A champion race buddy of mine only got 1 race weekend out of his contingent brake pad brand. 1 weekend!!!!!!!!! About 200 miles. It was at the time, the pad to have too!!!!! Not a bad way to spend $80 bucks?

Another tid bit that might interest some? Faster riders actually spend less time on the brakes. Faster riders do apply more brake pressure though, which increases brake pad temp much quicker, bringing the pad to peak performance quicker. A novice, or even intermediate rider will spend entirely too much time on the brakes with much less pressure. The heat comes in, but it takes time and the rest of the braking system will absorb some of that heat. The issue is that as soon as you let off the brakes, the rotor and pads cool down again. So if it wasn't at peak temp, you will basically be playing catch up. All the while the average temp of the braking system as a whole goes up. When you use the brakes hard for brief periods, more of the heat is placed into the pads at first. This heat is still absorbed into the brake system, but the temp at the pads is hotter and helps keep the performance up. In both cases you still end up with a very hot braking system, but the more heat that is concentrated into the pad, the better.

The lower organic compound pads do not do well with heat. They usually show a drop in performance as the heat rises. However the stock pads on pretty much all sport bikes are HH compound. This is a sintered metal compound that is basically considered race worthy and was, up until several years ago the race compound. Any HH compound will have a standard of performance that will meet the needs of the average rider. It meets my needs and I can ride faster than 75% of people out there.

I'm not saying don't get the race pad, but my experience says you don't need to spend that money for no real useful gain. By useful gain I mean that a novice, to even intermediate rider really isn't utilizing the pad and is spending money on the wrong things. I would say the one place to not scinch money on is the brake fluid. I think that the real missing link in most brake systems is fresh, properly bled brake fluid. The better DOT 5 race stuff is expensive, but is worth it's weight in gold vs. brake pads. Even the best brake pad will still have fade if the rest of the system is not up to the task. This is why I say that if you have issues with the stock pads, your doing it wrong. Food for thought.


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post #8 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 09:08 PM
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tl;dr

Stock pads fade... My rjl's don't. Well, not NEARLY as bad. I'm trying the xracs this coming season. Supposed to fade even less bc of the array cooling built in.


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post #9 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luke geis View Post
All I can say is that I know I'm faster than most, if not all of you and the stock pads work fine. If you are having issues with the stock pads it's because your doing it wrong.........
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With the more exotic compound " race pads ", there is a performance drop if not used as intended. You may not notice it, simply because you aren't using the brakes to their full potential anyway. If the pads are not up to temp they may not have the bite that they can provide, they will also start to glaze over, which also reduces over all performance. Most all companies show a graph of brake performance. It shows brake performance vs. temperature. Most of the more exotic pads will produce better braking than a stock pad at any given time, however for the pad to work at it's peak, the heat must also be higher. The drop in performance I speak of is in the pad itself, not in relation to a stock pad.

There is another drawback to using the race designed stuff. Most companies design their pads to get through only a couple, or a few race weekends. EBC specifically states that the pad should be replaced when worn to half thickness! The reason is because of extra fluid volume in the caliper can lead to a spongy lever feel.

From EBC website:

"Pads should be discarded when half worn due to increased fluid volume that will be in the piston chambers as the pad advances towards the rotor. Not doing so will lead to spongy brake feel and can result in the brake lever coming back to the bar."

Now it would take a little longer for normal track use, but combined with street use, you can see that the race pads are not intended to last very long. The EBC race pads are also not cheap. Neither are any of the other brands race stuff. A champion race buddy of mine only got 1 race weekend out of his contingent brake pad brand. 1 weekend!!!!!!!!! About 200 miles. It was at the time, the pad to have too!!!!! Not a bad way to spend $80 bucks?

Another tid bit that might interest some? Faster riders actually spend less time on the brakes. Faster riders do apply more brake pressure though, which increases brake pad temp much quicker, bringing the pad to peak performance quicker. A novice, or even intermediate rider will spend entirely too much time on the brakes with much less pressure. The heat comes in, but it takes time and the rest of the braking system will absorb some of that heat. The issue is that as soon as you let off the brakes, the rotor and pads cool down again. So if it wasn't at peak temp, you will basically be playing catch up. All the while the average temp of the braking system as a whole goes up. When you use the brakes hard for brief periods, more of the heat is placed into the pads at first. This heat is still absorbed into the brake system, but the temp at the pads is hotter and helps keep the performance up. In both cases you still end up with a very hot braking system, but the more heat that is concentrated into the pad, the better.

The lower organic compound pads do not do well with heat. They usually show a drop in performance as the heat rises. However the stock pads on pretty much all sport bikes are HH compound. This is a sintered metal compound that is basically considered race worthy and was, up until several years ago the race compound. Any HH compound will have a standard of performance that will meet the needs of the average rider. It meets my needs and I can ride faster than 75% of people out there.

I'm not saying don't get the race pad, but my experience says you don't need to spend that money for no real useful gain. By useful gain I mean that a novice, to even intermediate rider really isn't utilizing the pad and is spending money on the wrong things. I would say the one place to not scinch money on is the brake fluid. I think that the real missing link in most brake systems is fresh, properly bled brake fluid. The better DOT 5 race stuff is expensive, but is worth it's weight in gold vs. brake pads. Even the best brake pad will still have fade if the rest of the system is not up to the task. This is why I say that if you have issues with the stock pads, your doing it wrong. Food for thought.

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at how fast u think u are!!!
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Good for u tho. Confidence is half the battle and you've got plenty!

PS, the brake calipers and brake system on the r6 is NOT DOT 5 friendly.
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I wouldn't recommend it considering there are many warnings not to use it in the DOT 4 compatible systems. Swelling and deterioration of seals and parts in the system isnt good!


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Last edited by ChiefSmokeDawg; 01-02-2012 at 10:15 PM.
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post #10 of 45 (permalink) Old 01-02-2012, 10:57 PM
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Re: What brakes?


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