False Neutral??? Bent shift fork???? - Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-25-2013, 05:16 PM Thread Starter
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False Neutral??? Bent shift fork????

I began having this issue with my 2005 R6 while at the track last Saturday and Sunday. It seems to happen only when I'm downshifting at very high speeds/RPMs under hard braking from 6th to 5th. The symptom is that I down shift and let the clutch out but the transmission doesn't catch and the bike rolls freely while making a loud "Clacking" noise until I pull the clutch in and shift again.

It's quite scary considering that it usually happens when I'm going over 100mph and trying to quickly downshift for a turn
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. Oddly enough it doesn't seem to happen at lower RPM's or if I consciously match rev while shifting. Has anyone ever experienced this?

Last edited by Old Raven; 06-25-2013 at 05:19 PM.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-25-2013, 05:27 PM
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Re: False Neutral??? Bent shift fork????

Yes and I didn't like it
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I assumed I hit the shifter before completing the clutch engagement.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-25-2013, 05:30 PM
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Re: False Neutral??? Bent shift fork????

It kind of sounds like it's just a bad shift and you're catching a false neutral. Kind of hard to tell without being on the bike to feel it. 6th to 5th is usually a really easy shift to make though.

I'd start with the simple stuff first, and check the clutch cable, lever, arm (down at the clutch cover) and make sure everything is seated right, correct cable slack, cable isn't binding, etc. Basically all the easy stuff to ensure when you're pulling the lever, the clutch is actually disengaging.

If there's transmission problems it usually shows up in 2nd gear. I've never had problems myself, or had a transmission apart, so hopefully some more experienced guys chime in.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-25-2013, 05:57 PM
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Re: False Neutral??? Bent shift fork????

False Neutrals happen at the track especially if you are doing any type of endurance. You get lazy shifts and false neutrals. Just pull the clutch, up shift, and slowly feed the clutch back out and you'll be fine even if already tipped into the corner.

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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: False Neutral??? Bent shift fork????

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Originally Posted by Fallis View Post
It kind of sounds like it's just a bad shift and you're catching a false neutral. Kind of hard to tell without being on the bike to feel it. 6th to 5th is usually a really easy shift to make though.

I'd start with the simple stuff first, and check the clutch cable, lever, arm (down at the clutch cover) and make sure everything is seated right, correct cable slack, cable isn't binding, etc. Basically all the easy stuff to ensure when you're pulling the lever, the clutch is actually disengaging.

If there's transmission problems it usually shows up in 2nd gear. I've never had problems myself, or had a transmission apart, so hopefully some more experienced guys chime in.
Thanks for the suggestions Fallis, I plan to go through all of that later this week during my post track day maintenance routine. It very well could have just been a lazy/bad down shift as both times it happend it was late in the session and I was begining to get fatigued.

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Originally Posted by mercenary View Post
False Neutrals happen at the track especially if you are doing any type of endurance. You get lazy shifts and false neutrals. Just pull the clutch, up shift, and slowly feed the clutch back out and you'll be fine even if already tipped into the corner.
Mercenary, I wil give that try if it happens again. I'm curious, since you're already rolling and the RPM's have dropped the upshift won't lock up the rear tire and potentially cause a problem if leaned over?


Thanks to both of you for the replies!!!
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 07:53 PM
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Re: False Neutral??? Bent shift fork????

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Originally Posted by Old Raven View Post
Thanks for the suggestions Fallis, I plan to go through all of that later this week during my post track day maintenance routine. It very well could have just been a lazy/bad down shift as both times it happend it was late in the session and I was begining to get fatigued.



Mercenary, I wil give that try if it happens again. I'm curious, since you're already rolling and the RPM's have dropped the upshift won't lock up the rear tire and potentially cause a problem if leaned over?


Thanks to both of you for the replies!!!
Nah - that's exactly why you want to shift to a higher gear when you get a false neutral. Worst case, you'd bog the motor a little - but going up a gear is never going to lock the rear tire, or over rev the motor.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-26-2013, 10:16 PM
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Re: False Neutral??? Bent shift fork????

^^
so true. If ya happen to catch a false neutral, be sure to upshift. Downshifting could result in a highside, or at the least, is more upsetting to the bike than finding yourself in too low an rpm range.

OP: is your bike set up for GP shift pattern ? i have found standard shifting to be less prone to false neutrals. There are benefits to gp shift, but i will trade not getting false neutrals for a very minor benefit on upshifts. personal preferance.

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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-15-2013, 09:01 AM
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Re: False Neutral??? Bent shift fork????

You're letting the clutch out too quickly. False Neutral to me is when you're actually in neutral. Not when it's clacking like that in and out of the gear.

When you pull the clutch all the way in, shift, and let it go too fast, you get rear slide
When you pull the clutch halfway, shift, and let it go too fast, you get that clacking and in and out of gear
When you pull the clutch halfway, shift, and let go smoothly (not too slow, not too fast) you get a perfectly smooth shift like you're supposed to.

Believe me I've done all of those. Star School / Jason Pridmore finally pointed me in the right direction.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-15-2013, 09:13 AM
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Re: False Neutral??? Bent shift fork????

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Originally Posted by Gurk View Post
You're letting the clutch out too quickly. False Neutral to me is when you're actually in neutral. Not when it's clacking like that in and out of the gear.

When you pull the clutch all the way in, shift, and let it go too fast, you get rear slide
When you pull the clutch halfway, shift, and let it go too fast, you get that clacking and in and out of gear
When you pull the clutch halfway, shift, and let go smoothly (not too slow, not too fast) you get a perfectly smooth shift like you're supposed to.

Believe me I've done all of those. Star School / Jason Pridmore finally pointed me in the right direction.
"real" neutral or "false" neutral, clacking or not clacking.. if it's not in gear, it doesn't matter. You have zero engine braking and you are likely going off track if you don't do something in a hurry.
I do agree that there should be some fluidness to letting the clutch out, and that you do not have to pull the clutch all the way in to make shifts..

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 07-15-2013, 09:32 AM
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Re: False Neutral??? Bent shift fork????

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Originally Posted by MELK-MAN View Post
"real" neutral or "false" neutral, clacking or not clacking.. if it's not in gear, it doesn't matter. You have zero engine braking and you are likely going off track if you don't do something in a hurry.
I do agree that there should be some fluidness to letting the clutch out, and that you do not have to pull the clutch all the way in to make shifts..
no point arguing the label.
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but yeah i can swear by it. it's 100% rider error. after i learned why it happened i was able to correct it. also i'm able to replicate the problem every time.

hopefully helps the OP.
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