Wwyd ? - Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 10:56 AM Thread Starter
I eat my R6
 
cheefar6's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,028
Bike: 2008 YZF-R6 x2
Wwyd ?

What would you do, in this hypothetical situation...


So you've been tracking your bike a few years now, consider yourself 'fast' and have been riding consistently in the expert group at track days for atleast a year...

1 track day, in the expert/advanced group, all is going well, about 3 laps into the session, and there is a slower rider in front of you, sort of on inside of the track, that looks behind him as you come up to pass, makes an abrupt move, and you collide. You end up in the hospital and the fun ends.

You then receive word from the track day organization, basically stating that the rider you were involved in a collision with, was a lower level rider that had 'accidentally' been let out onto the track, in expert group, along with two other riders. The org continues by stating this wouldn't have happened if they had been stopped at pit in, where there is a track marshall checking bikes so incorrect groups do not go out...
They continue with stating that the riders were seen after first lap and black flagged (meaning they had a flag pointed at them a specific color telling the rider they have a problem and need to pull off the track next time around and see the track marshall), but the riders in question tell you they saw no black flag... as well as others on the track, and you yourself never saw one either...


What would be your next course of action?
cheefar6 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 11:12 AM
Yamaha Blue in any color
 
DanQ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Jacksonville, NC
Posts: 3,250
Bike: FZR-1K, R1, Vmax, R6
Re: Wwyd ?

My answer is one you won't like (hypothetically speaking, of course).

In my opinion, as taught to me at school, it is the over taking rider's responsibility to ensure the pass can be done safely. Therefore any incident during the pass is the over taking rider's responsibility.

As far as next course of action? I don't know. Maybe an attorney?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



Dan

CCS #598
91 FZR 1000
04 YZF-R1
05 YZF-R6 (track bike)
05 V-Max 0098/2000 20th Anniversary
04 Roadstar Warrior

TEAM: SO FAST SO CLEAN
DanQ is offline  
post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 11:25 AM
Yoga Pants Connoisseur

 
babymilo36's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 35,477
Bike: Kobe XI
Re: Wwyd ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanQ View Post
My answer is one you won't like (hypothetically speaking, of course).

In my opinion, as taught to me at school, it is the over taking rider's responsibility to ensure the pass can be done safely. Therefore any incident during the pass is the over taking rider's responsibility.

As far as next course of action? I don't know. Maybe an attorney?
I think hypothetically in that situation, it might have been too late to react because it was a fast corner prior to that straight.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
babymilo36 is offline  
 
post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 12:15 PM
Make good choices.
 
thedub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Gardnerville, NV
Posts: 2,808
Bike: R6, SV, KTM300, Tiger 800
Re: Wwyd ?

**** dude, that sucks.

I would be pretty pissed that the TD Org allowed a lapse in their standard operating procedure that resulted in my injury and loss of property. One could even say they were negligent.

I don't know what I would do next...it depends.
Will you be placed in financial hardship due to your injuries?
Was the other guy hurt?
What is my opinion of the td org? What is their safety record? Do I think they are good, safe guys who had one slip up? Do I want to forgive them and still ride with them in the future?
Or do I think they are a bunch of jackasses who just screwed up again? Do I want to burn that bridge and seek financial compensation and damage their reputation?

You have to of course understand that each and every time you go out on track there is a chance your bike will be destroyed and you will be injured. That's why we like to say 'don't take anything out on track you can't afford to toss away' and that's why they make you sign a waiver. And like Dan said, it's the overtaking riders responsibility to do so safely. However in this case it's possible the td org's negligence was responsible for your misfortune, in which case it's something different entirely.

Only you can answer these questions and decide what you want to do next.
thedub is offline  
post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 12:40 PM
I eat my R6
 
Mott Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 484
Re: Wwyd ?

I would agree with an above statement: the rider in front always has the right of way, it's up to you to ensure that path is safe. Unfortunately it is a shitty situation, but unless the track day organization and track itself has a legal withholding stating liability is the fault of a rider or vehicle who has disobeyed an official order, i.e. black flag, which means they cause a certain safety hazard to others on the track, then I don't think there is much you can do. If you have video of the event happening then it's really only a small claims court matter, granted you can prove he saw you and is at fault for the collision because he was in a level outside his skills. Otherwise, it's the track, shit happens and you have to put up with it, sadly.

Happened with a buddy of mine this past season, rider hit him from the outside of a corner going in to an apex and they both had totaled bikes. The other rider claimed he took a different line and speed but as I said then, it is the rider behind who bares the responsibility to ensure a safe pass. I don't think there is much this theoretical person can do.

I don't think you can do anything in terms of legal action against the track or track day organization either since you usually sign a waiver claiming you are responsible for any monetary and bodily damages that happen.
Mott Power is offline  
post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 01:37 PM
Make good choices.
 
thedub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Gardnerville, NV
Posts: 2,808
Bike: R6, SV, KTM300, Tiger 800
Re: Wwyd ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mott Power View Post
I don't think you can do anything in terms of legal action against the track or track day organization either since you usually sign a waiver claiming you are responsible for any monetary and bodily damages that happen.
I think we should probably let his lawyer figure that out, if that's the path OP chooses.

Or, unless... are you an expert on Polish tort law?
thedub is offline  
post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 01:38 PM
I eat my R6
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 211
Bike: 2005 R6
Re: Wwyd ?

I'd talk to the track day organization and see if they'll pay for a replacement bike or hospital bills, or whatever I want paid for. I'd try to be reasonable and just assess how much they are willing to own up to their mistake. If they don't cooperate...

I'd take their letter to an attorney, along with a copy of the liability waiver, and see if I had a case.

I don't think you should feel bad about suing them to get your bike replaced or hospital bills covered (really, you're suing for money, but it's to pay for those things). Companies have insurance to cover accidents. Yeah, their rates might go up and they might charge more for track days, but do you do so many track days with them that paying a lower track day fee is cheaper than another motorcycle?

2005 R6- Ohlins shock with Lindemann Engineering re-valve, Ohlins cartridges with Lindemann Engineering re-valve, full Hindle Stainless Steel exhaust, PCIII, Dynojet Quick Shifter, AGG smog block offs, K&N air filter, Puig windscreen, Vortex Rear Sets, fender eliminator, flush-mount blinkers, and if only I had more time for track days...
WhiteLightning72 is offline  
post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 01:52 PM
I eat my R6
 
Mott Power's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 484
Re: Wwyd ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thedub View Post
I think we should probably let his lawyer figure that out, if that's the path OP chooses.

Or, unless... are you an expert on Polish tort law?
That I am not...
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Mott Power is offline  
post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 01:59 PM
Reads the rulez
 
High Side's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: The shithole of DC
Posts: 2,235
Bike: Turbo'd Ruckus
Re: Wwyd ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteLightning72 View Post
I'd talk to the track day organization and see if they'll pay for a replacement bike or hospital bills, or whatever I want paid for. I'd try to be reasonable and just assess how much they are willing to own up to their mistake. If they don't cooperate...

I'd take their letter to an attorney, along with a copy of the liability waiver, and see if I had a case.

I don't think you should feel bad about suing them to get your bike replaced or hospital bills covered (really, you're suing for money, but it's to pay for those things). Companies have insurance to cover accidents. Yeah, their rates might go up and they might charge more for track days, but do you do so many track days with them that paying a lower track day fee is cheaper than another motorcycle?
Or, everyone just fixes their shit and moves on with life.

I can't believe anyone even brought up "lawyer" in this thread. They are the exact reason why everyone is so quick to sue. All out for a quick buck.

Shit happens at the track, either at a track day or racing. If you aren't willing to take your bike home in a wadded mess, you shouldn't be out there. Period.

You shouldn't feel bad for suing them? Seriously?

IF YOU DON'T HAVE ADEQUATE HEALTH INSURANCE, YOU SHOULDN'T BE ON THE TRACK. PERIOD.

Who in the hell would you sue if you crashed from a low side? Your tire manufacturer because they didn't grip enough? The track day org? The track itself? When are people like you going to accept responsibility for your own actions? Your riding a high performance motorcycle at a high rate of speed. You haven't planned for anything?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bburgess05 View Post
I was going to continue to trash you rookie clowns but it's not even worth it. You're going to spend the rest of your days wasting away and possibility of aquiring talent because you're too ignorant and stubborn to realize you suck... but could be good. You all just keep proving my points.
NESBA "A"
WERA Expert
High Side is offline  
post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 04:16 PM
Make good choices.
 
thedub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Gardnerville, NV
Posts: 2,808
Bike: R6, SV, KTM300, Tiger 800
Re: Wwyd ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by High Side View Post
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ADEQUATE HEALTH INSURANCE, YOU SHOULDN'T BE ON THE TRACK. PERIOD.
The OP never said this.

In my post I asked if his hospital stay was going to create a financial hardship. I kind of forgot that, duh, if he was riding on the track that should not be the case because he should have had health insurance to cover the expense. (What's the health care situation like in Poland? I have no idea.)

Yes, shit happens on the racetrack. People run into each and crash sometimes. And like you said you need to be ready to accept the consequences regardless of fault. Talk of lawyers would be ridiculous if he had just low sided on his own.

But in this case, and I think this is the entire point of OP making this thread, there is the possibility of gross negligence by the track day organizer that lead to this accident. Obviously we don't have all details here, far from it, we just have the general story that OP gave us. I don't think it's wrong to pursue compensation if you feel the gross negligence of another has caused your loss.
thedub is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome