Motor refresh interval? - Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums
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post #1 of 86 (permalink) Old 03-30-2015, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Motor refresh interval?

Curious what system people use (if at all). I have a GPX Pro so it tracks hours and mileage for me. It's 100% track so easy enough.

I sometimes see posts where people talk about how many "seasons" they get out of their bike, but that's a pretty useless metric. Does anyone track their refresh intervals by race hours and, if so, what interval are you using? (and what are you doing after X amount of hours)
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post #2 of 86 (permalink) Old 03-30-2015, 10:53 AM
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Re: Motor refresh interval?

Would totally be dependent on build of the motor. Stock? Run her till she blows...or starts to use excessive oil, etc. If it's built, generally the builder of the engine will give you a window of when you should look at refreshing the motor.

If the engine builder cannot provide you with an estimate on when it should be rebuilt, that is definitely a red flag not to go with that guy...

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post #3 of 86 (permalink) Old 03-30-2015, 11:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Motor refresh interval?

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Originally Posted by High Side View Post
Stock? Run her till she blows...or starts to use excessive oil, etc.
What about the coating wearing off the valves, etc.? Will that not happen before it blows? I thought one was supposed to do that early, because once the coating was gone things go south quick.
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post #4 of 86 (permalink) Old 03-30-2015, 11:53 AM
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Usually rings or valves go before the coating. My 81 BMW still has coated cylinders.
FWIW, a guy I know had about 40,000 miles (maybe half were racing and coaching) before his leakdown test showed something wrong in #3. Still ran and he has it as a back up motor until he can rebuild it.
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post #5 of 86 (permalink) Old 03-30-2015, 12:01 PM
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Re: Motor refresh interval?

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Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
What about the coating wearing off the valves, etc.? Will that not happen before it blows? I thought one was supposed to do that early, because once the coating was gone things go south quick.
I've seen quite a number of 3rd gen R6's with 40k+ miles. What makes track riding wear the valves any faster than street riding? You might argue that a street engine doesn't see the RPM's that a track bike does. I'll give you that, but even if you cut the miles in half (assuming on average, the track engine average RPM is twice that of a street bike) that's still 20,000 miles of track riding.

I think the more relevant question would be: Who's ran a bone stock R6 motor long enough on the track to blow it up?

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Originally Posted by bburgess05 View Post
I was going to continue to trash you rookie clowns but it's not even worth it. You're going to spend the rest of your days wasting away and possibility of aquiring talent because you're too ignorant and stubborn to realize you suck... but could be good. You all just keep proving my points.
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post #6 of 86 (permalink) Old 03-30-2015, 12:13 PM
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Re: Motor refresh interval?

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Originally Posted by High Side View Post
I've seen quite a number of 3rd gen R6's with 40k+ miles. What makes track riding wear the valves any faster than street riding? You might argue that a street engine doesn't see the RPM's that a track bike does. I'll give you that, but even if you cut the miles in half (assuming on average, the track engine average RPM is twice that of a street bike) that's still 20,000 miles of track riding.

I think the more relevant question would be: Who's ran a bone stock R6 motor long enough on the track to blow it up?
Seen it on stock motors less than 10k miles.

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post #7 of 86 (permalink) Old 03-30-2015, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Motor refresh interval?

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Originally Posted by mercenary View Post
Seen it on stock motors less than 10k miles.
This was my worry. I thought Melka said he changed his valves every other year (though again, I don't have much of an idea how much a "year" is for him.... not sure how often he goes outside of the CCS season). Maybe I am remembering wrong and it wasn't that often.

Everything else (maintenance not included, e.g., valve adjustments and oil changes) seems to be a "just wait until it goes" thing, but the valve issue was my primary concern. Especially since it sounds like something you have to do BEFORE it wears off, or else things go downhill fast.
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post #8 of 86 (permalink) Old 03-30-2015, 04:36 PM
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Re: Motor refresh interval?

no way does a street bike see the wear/abuse a fast rider puts on a track/race only engine. The valves are a weak link in a 3rd gen r6 motor, especially if you run mr12 or some other race fuels. The exhaust valves specifically get pitted on the seat face, and once the coating on these TI valves is compromised, they are not long for this world. exst. valves must be replaced on a race engine using race fuel every season or 2..

a leak down test is the first thing i would do. more than 5% leak down? not too bad.. but as a front running expert, i don't wanna see more tan 5-6%, and i wanna see consistency across all 4 cylinders. 10% ? most experts will rebuild but for most track day riders or AM racers, not a huge deal.. one friend of mine had 25 % leak down on his engine (1st year expert and had 3 seasons on his engine) and it still ran decent, but obviously well down on power. My guy did the rebuild for him. Rings, bearings, sent the head to KWS for seat cutting, all new valves and springs.

road use and pump gas.. not nearly the problems with valves that you will see with a race engine regularly 9000rpm or higher, and using race fuel. Race fuel leaves a horrible reside that as stated before, pits the exst valve faces..

do a compression test (min spec for a STOCK motor is 185psi, with less than 10psi variation from cyl to cyl).. comp test needs done with the butterfly plates on the throttle bodies held open somewhat, and all spark plugs out (so it cranks faster) and a good and charged battery. Slow crank, and/or butterflys closed, will show low psi !
a leak down test is better.. but need a mechanic with the leak down tool and know-how to do it. This test indicates not only the amount of leak-down, but WHERE it's coming from. If you hear the hissing air from throttle bodies it's intake valve leak, at the muffler it's leaking past exhaust valves, if from the ignition cover area (and have to have off to move engine to TDC on each cyl) it's leaking past the rings..

hard core racing, every season should do a build. (rings, pistons, bearings, valves, springs, seats cut, hone cyl). every couple sesasons for AM racing to be safe..

ALSO! i don't see any reason why a "built" motor should be rebuilt any more often than a typical race engine. A good superbike build, with carrillo rods, won't need rebuilt any more often than a typical supersport build (just thinner head gasket and cam timing).

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post #9 of 86 (permalink) Old 03-30-2015, 05:28 PM
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Re: Motor refresh interval?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MELK-MAN View Post
no way does a street bike see the wear/abuse a fast rider puts on a track/race only engine. The valves are a weak link in a 3rd gen r6 motor, especially if you run mr12 or some other race fuels. The exhaust valves specifically get pitted on the seat face, and once the coating on these TI valves is compromised, they are not long for this world. exst. valves must be replaced on a race engine using race fuel every season or 2..

a leak down test is the first thing i would do. more than 5% leak down? not too bad.. but as a front running expert, i don't wanna see more tan 5-6%, and i wanna see consistency across all 4 cylinders. 10% ? most experts will rebuild but for most track day riders or AM racers, not a huge deal.. one friend of mine had 25 % leak down on his engine (1st year expert and had 3 seasons on his engine) and it still ran decent, but obviously well down on power. My guy did the rebuild for him. Rings, bearings, sent the head to KWS for seat cutting, all new valves and springs.

road use and pump gas.. not nearly the problems with valves that you will see with a race engine regularly 9000rpm or higher, and using race fuel. Race fuel leaves a horrible reside that as stated before, pits the exst valve faces..

do a compression test (min spec for a STOCK motor is 185psi, with less than 10psi variation from cyl to cyl).. comp test needs done with the butterfly plates on the throttle bodies held open somewhat, and all spark plugs out (so it cranks faster) and a good and charged battery. Slow crank, and/or butterflys closed, will show low psi !
a leak down test is better.. but need a mechanic with the leak down tool and know-how to do it. This test indicates not only the amount of leak-down, but WHERE it's coming from. If you hear the hissing air from throttle bodies it's intake valve leak, at the muffler it's leaking past exhaust valves, if from the ignition cover area (and have to have off to move engine to TDC on each cyl) it's leaking past the rings..

hard core racing, every season should do a build. (rings, pistons, bearings, valves, springs, seats cut, hone cyl). every couple sesasons for AM racing to be safe..

ALSO! i don't see any reason why a "built" motor should be rebuilt any more often than a typical race engine. A good superbike build, with carrillo rods, won't need rebuilt any more often than a typical supersport build (just thinner head gasket and cam timing).
So...what about the track day heros/racers that use bone stock engines with pump gas?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bburgess05 View Post
I was going to continue to trash you rookie clowns but it's not even worth it. You're going to spend the rest of your days wasting away and possibility of aquiring talent because you're too ignorant and stubborn to realize you suck... but could be good. You all just keep proving my points.
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post #10 of 86 (permalink) Old 03-30-2015, 05:45 PM
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Re: Motor refresh interval?

Quote:
Originally Posted by High Side View Post
So...what about the track day heros/racers that use bone stock engines with pump gas?
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Word. I would say that describes the situation for the vast majority of club racers. At least at my club.

At the very least, it seems worthwhile to do a compression test once a season and go from there.
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