First Knee Down At Thunderhill - Page 2 - Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-17-2018, 08:30 PM
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Re: First Knee Down At Thunderhill

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I wish, thatís within days of our 2nd daughterís due date... Me thinks it may be a bit, but Iíd be down to do a group meet up late this year/next year at Thunderhill. Iíd say Sonoma or Laguna Seca but Iím not paying that much to get kicked outa Laguna (or sandbag) due to my exhaust... I could be swayed to pony up for Sonoma though... Iíve watched Indy races there and that track looks like fun!
I should be there most of Keigwins days..... just pm me before you head to one of their events
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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 06:57 AM
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Re: First Knee Down At Thunderhill

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anyone going on June 30/Jul 1 to Thunderhill w/Keigwins? I'll be instructing (mostly R3, but will bring out the R6 for some fun). Haven't ridden the R6 at the track in almost 2 years
One day is the east and the other is the 5 mile? Have some friends going... wish I could make it.
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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-18-2018, 07:02 AM
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Re: First Knee Down At Thunderhill

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One day is the east and the other is the 5 mile? Have some friends going... wish I could make it.
Correct. I want to ride East more on the R3, just set some PB in this weekend AFM Rd4. Few spots where I'm weak, need to work on them
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 06-21-2018, 11:23 AM
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Re: First Knee Down At Thunderhill

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Hey Everyone,

I had a blast recently at Thunderhill riding with Keigwins At the Track, and in addition to shaving 10 seconds off my lap times, I also got my knee down for the first time ever! Iíve been working on braking later in the turns and still have much work to do. Iím running the Michelin Pilot Power 3ís that were on the bike when I bought it. I wonder if I can get down to 2:05 or so before getting warmers and track tires... (2:14 or so in link below).


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Woohooooo!! Knee down for the first time is always such an awesome feeling. Well done!

What strategies are you going to use to get your braking done later? What aspects of your riding might have to change in order to allow for deeper/later braking?

"Leap and the net will appear!"


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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 07-26-2018, 07:31 PM Thread Starter
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Woohooooo!! Knee down for the first time is always such an awesome feeling. Well done!

What strategies are you going to use to get your braking done later? What aspects of your riding might have to change in order to allow for deeper/later braking?
Sorry for the delay, typing with a newborn in my arms now... For me it has been all mental. It has taken a lot of time and work to get to trust my bike!

I have attended some Ken Hill Coaching classes with Keigwins where he talks about lap report cards. For me I noticed I would have to either grab throttle in the middle of the turn, or would hold neutral throttle through a turn that should be off/on at the apex. As that happenned on the same turns over an over, I begin paying more attention to my braking markers, and pushing a little later each lap.

Another thing was track photos. Being able to look at my body position, and watching other riders fly by me, I knew I had more contact patch, and lean angle available.

The last was again mental and from coaching. Ken Hill teaches a 5% rule (donít ask me to explain it please). As I began to apply this rule and work on my finesse I found the bike would drop into turns effortlessly, and drive out muchbharder with less effort.

Oh yeah, suspension! I spend a fair amount of time monitoring tire pressure, and visiting the Dave Moss Tuning trailer as I get faster. (We added preload to forks between first and second knee down).

Hope this helps, Iím doing my best to get back Thunderhill this season!
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post #16 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 09:10 PM
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Re: First Knee Down At Thunderhill

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Originally Posted by That dude View Post
Sorry for the delay, typing with a newborn in my arms now... For me it has been all mental. It has taken a lot of time and work to get to trust my bike!

I have attended some Ken Hill Coaching classes with Keigwins where he talks about lap report cards. For me I noticed I would have to either grab throttle in the middle of the turn, or would hold neutral throttle through a turn that should be off/on at the apex. As that happenned on the same turns over an over, I begin paying more attention to my braking markers, and pushing a little later each lap.

Another thing was track photos. Being able to look at my body position, and watching other riders fly by me, I knew I had more contact patch, and lean angle available.

The last was again mental and from coaching. Ken Hill teaches a 5% rule (donít ask me to explain it please). As I began to apply this rule and work on my finesse I found the bike would drop into turns effortlessly, and drive out muchbharder with less effort.

Oh yeah, suspension! I spend a fair amount of time monitoring tire pressure, and visiting the Dave Moss Tuning trailer as I get faster. (We added preload to forks between first and second knee down).

Hope this helps, Iím doing my best to get back Thunderhill this season!
Congrats on the newborn! I have two kids of my own so summertime is tough to find time to visit forums. We've been busy!

I like that you have good solid answers and a good idea of what you are doing and how you might improve. Lots of times people just say, I need to be braver and just wait longer to grab the brakes...hmmmmm, not usually the best way. lol.

however, what I did notice here is that you didn't mention vision at all. How might your visual skills have an effect on WHY you might be braking too soon and how could you use VISION to help you feel more confident in braking later?

"Leap and the net will appear!"


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post #17 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 10:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: First Knee Down At Thunderhill

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Originally Posted by misti View Post
Congrats on the newborn! I have two kids of my own so summertime is tough to find time to visit forums. We've been busy!

I like that you have good solid answers and a good idea of what you are doing and how you might improve. Lots of times people just say, I need to be braver and just wait longer to grab the brakes...hmmmmm, not usually the best way. lol.

however, what I did notice here is that you didn't mention vision at all. How might your visual skills have an effect on WHY you might be braking too soon and how could you use VISION to help you feel more confident in braking later?
Good questions Misti! To be honest, my vision is not the greatest. I struggle to see detail at far distances. Glasses/contacts have always made me dizzy and mess with my depth perception so I go without. The good news is we have found I can focus on those far details briefly. My eye muscles wonít stay there long tho. This really only affects me coming into turns 1 and 14 at Thunderhill. The braking markers are faded, and at speeds of 120-130+ they are hard for me to make out. I use the trees coming into turn 1 but it is a little vague and one of my next turns to focus on (started on my slowest corners).

Ken Hill taught us a great visual excercise last year at my 2-day novice class. While his excercise was taught on paper, I have found ways to adapt it to real life. For instance, while sitting at a stoplight, I will normally scan my surroundings. Now, when I focus on something, I make sure I identify it and name it before moving on (if itís a street sign, what type? A car emblem, what make?). The more I practice this the quicker I focus on, not just see, what Iím looking at.

Doing this excercise, especially the paper version, has helped me overcome my vision issues a bit. Aside from keeping my head up and on the horizon, Iím able to identify my entry and exit markers quicker and with less distraction (also helps spotting flaggers too). It is still a work in progress and Iím still looking for those elusive braking markers in turn 14 at T-Hill...

What next???
2003 Derbi Senda SM50 (sold)
2003 Yamaha TT-R 125 (wife's bike/ play bike)
2013 GasGas XC300 (when a 250 2-stroke isn't enough)
2007 Honda CBR600RR (Sold)
2008 R6 (dedicated track bike, AKA LandShark)
2011 HD FLHX Street Glide 103 (sold)
2015 HD XL1200V Sportster 72 (fun, but sold)
1998 Honda VFR 800 (shouldn't have sold)
2013 Honda CB500F (regretfully sold)
2002 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6R (RIP)
1979 Yamaha IT 250 (best $80 ever spent!)
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post #18 of 26 (permalink) Old 08-08-2018, 10:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: First Knee Down At Thunderhill

Very true about ďbring brave... and braking laterĒ too. The first time I tried that I down-shifted too much too late. I put her way over the rev limit and locked up the back tire at well over 100! I was able to ride it out deep into the turn, but that was cause for me to find an instructor and ask for help immediately. Iím so thankful for all the awesome riding coaches and instructors out there!!!

What next???
2003 Derbi Senda SM50 (sold)
2003 Yamaha TT-R 125 (wife's bike/ play bike)
2013 GasGas XC300 (when a 250 2-stroke isn't enough)
2007 Honda CBR600RR (Sold)
2008 R6 (dedicated track bike, AKA LandShark)
2011 HD FLHX Street Glide 103 (sold)
2015 HD XL1200V Sportster 72 (fun, but sold)
1998 Honda VFR 800 (shouldn't have sold)
2013 Honda CB500F (regretfully sold)
2002 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6R (RIP)
1979 Yamaha IT 250 (best $80 ever spent!)
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post #19 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-14-2018, 09:52 AM
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Re: First Knee Down At Thunderhill

Quote:
Originally Posted by That dude View Post
Good questions Misti! To be honest, my vision is not the greatest. I struggle to see detail at far distances. Glasses/contacts have always made me dizzy and mess with my depth perception so I go without. The good news is we have found I can focus on those far details briefly. My eye muscles wonít stay there long tho. This really only affects me coming into turns 1 and 14 at Thunderhill. The braking markers are faded, and at speeds of 120-130+ they are hard for me to make out. I use the trees coming into turn 1 but it is a little vague and one of my next turns to focus on (started on my slowest corners).

Ken Hill taught us a great visual excercise last year at my 2-day novice class. While his excercise was taught on paper, I have found ways to adapt it to real life. For instance, while sitting at a stoplight, I will normally scan my surroundings. Now, when I focus on something, I make sure I identify it and name it before moving on (if itís a street sign, what type? A car emblem, what make?). The more I practice this the quicker I focus on, not just see, what Iím looking at.

Doing this excercise, especially the paper version, has helped me overcome my vision issues a bit. Aside from keeping my head up and on the horizon, Iím able to identify my entry and exit markers quicker and with less distraction (also helps spotting flaggers too). It is still a work in progress and Iím still looking for those elusive braking markers in turn 14 at T-Hill...
I'm glad you gained something from the visual exercise you learned last year and it seems like you are practicing the correct strategies of choosing some good braking markers to start with. However, one thing that I didn't see mentioned at all is the progression of your eyes from one reference point to the next. Once you have spotted your braking markers, then what? What are your eyes DOING at that moment and where are they looking next? How might what your eyes are doing or where they are looking next affect your entry speed into the corner? Do you have a plan on how your vision should move through the corner?
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post #20 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-14-2018, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: First Knee Down At Thunderhill

Wow, great questions. Iím guessing by the way you ask (much like a good teacher), there is something to learn here.

I canít honestly say I know what my eyes are doing between markers other than scanning ahead. Aside from a couple long turns that allow you to push out 1/3 to 1/2 track (I like to look for tar lines and patch marks on those turns to make sure Iím on my line). Other than that itís hust head up and eyes ahead.

What next???
2003 Derbi Senda SM50 (sold)
2003 Yamaha TT-R 125 (wife's bike/ play bike)
2013 GasGas XC300 (when a 250 2-stroke isn't enough)
2007 Honda CBR600RR (Sold)
2008 R6 (dedicated track bike, AKA LandShark)
2011 HD FLHX Street Glide 103 (sold)
2015 HD XL1200V Sportster 72 (fun, but sold)
1998 Honda VFR 800 (shouldn't have sold)
2013 Honda CB500F (regretfully sold)
2002 Kawasaki Ninja ZX6R (RIP)
1979 Yamaha IT 250 (best $80 ever spent!)
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