Trail Braking - Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-15-2008, 02:16 PM Thread Starter
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Trail Braking

Looking for some good tips for trail braking...

I have gotten to the point where i can start continuing braking deeper and even into the corners. But the idea of tucking the front scares the piss out of me. Should i do the old +2 rule? Focus on one turn and take it two feet further every time till i sh*t myself? haha.
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-16-2008, 04:20 PM
crashing aint so bad
 
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Re: Trail Braking

Wait untill you see god, then brake.


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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-16-2008, 04:38 PM
crashing aint so bad
 
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Re: Trail Braking

Just stating an old saying by a racing legend. The best way to get better at braking is by first practicing it. You need to know how hard you can brake safely. You also need to be able to do it quickly. While going in a straight line at what ever speed when no one is around you try doing a couple of panic stops. Start braking and then brake harder to the point where the rear tire comes up or you hear a howling sound from the front tire. Be carefull where you do this though, don't want to be on slippery stuff. Once you learn how hard you can brake you can apply it to braking for a turn.

How to brake for a turn. Find a braking marker or point use it to start your braking and use the the brakes to get you to the desired speed in as short a period of time as you safely can before your turning point. When you can slow down fast enough to the point where you have ample distance from the turning point make a new braking marker that is closer to the turning point and will allow you to use the brakes a little after the turn is initiated. Eventually you will be braking closer to the turning point and then trail braking till about appex of the turn. Realize that you will be reducing pressure on the brakes as you get deeper into the turn.

Thats it in a nutshell. Most people are not aware of how good the front brakes are on these machines. I can tell you that you will be amazed at how hard you can brake. The art comes in finding out how hard you can do it while leaned over.


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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-16-2008, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Trail Braking

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke geis View Post
Wait untill you see god, then brake.
Wayne Rainey? Of was it kevin schwantz?
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-16-2008, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Trail Braking

Quote:
Originally Posted by luke geis View Post
Just stating an old saying by a racing legend. The best way to get better at braking is by first practicing it. You need to know how hard you can brake safely. You also need to be able to do it quickly. While going in a straight line at what ever speed when no one is around you try doing a couple of panic stops. Start braking and then brake harder to the point where the rear tire comes up or you hear a howling sound from the front tire. Be carefull where you do this though, don't want to be on slippery stuff. Once you learn how hard you can brake you can apply it to braking for a turn.

How to brake for a turn. Find a braking marker or point use it to start your braking and use the the brakes to get you to the desired speed in as short a period of time as you safely can before your turning point. When you can slow down fast enough to the point where you have ample distance from the turning point make a new braking marker that is closer to the turning point and will allow you to use the brakes a little after the turn is initiated. Eventually you will be braking closer to the turning point and then trail braking till about appex of the turn. Realize that you will be reducing pressure on the brakes as you get deeper into the turn.

Thats it in a nutshell. Most people are not aware of how good the front brakes are on these machines. I can tell you that you will be amazed at how hard you can brake. The art comes in finding out how hard you can do it while leaned over.

Right now i am at the point where the back end wiggles and starts to come around... The rear tire is definately getting light. And this happens for me right before i turn in... but i am virtually 100% off the brakes once the turn is initiated. So my question is... do i just start braking a little later and push a little deeper into the turn and go by the "feel"?

Long story short... braking isn't the issue, it's more of the fear of finding that limit of the front tire. That is the sole reason i want to start working on trail braking. At this point i have maxed out my braking performance prior to turn in without trailing.

What are the "warnings" of finding that limit of the front tire?
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-16-2008, 05:44 PM
 
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Re: Trail Braking

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Originally Posted by YZRM1-R6 View Post
What are the "warnings" of finding that limit of the front tire?
It'll slide, just like the back.

When you brake for a corner you obviously compress the front forks, a perfect trail brake will slowly release the pressure on the front forks, as the turning starts to load them. So instead of compressing the forks during braking, rebounding when you let off then compressing the forks again during the turn, you want to compress them with the brakes and as you turn in try to keep them at the same level. As you turn harder and harder brake less and less so that there is only one compression of the forks from the start of braking until you power out of the corner.
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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-16-2008, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Trail Braking

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Originally Posted by Agent4573 View Post
It'll slide, just like the back.

When you brake for a corner you obviously compress the front forks, a perfect trail brake will slowly release the pressure on the front forks, as the turning starts to load them. So instead of compressing the forks during braking, rebounding when you let off then compressing the forks again during the turn, you want to compress them with the brakes and as you turn in try to keep them at the same level. As you turn harder and harder brake less and less so that there is only one compression of the forks from the start of braking until you power out of the corner.

Excellent explanation of the theory involved. Thats a great place to start... with understanding the theory
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-17-2008, 06:23 PM
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Re: Trail Braking

to be honest, the only way you'll actually learn where the limit is, you'll have to go past the limit. Even then, it might not help you learn how much load the front tire can handle. As far as how deep and hard you can trail brake...good question. I would just go at it step by step. Pick a braking marker, and keep going a few feet further and further back. When you crash or run too wide in the turn, you've reached 'your max' potential.
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-18-2008, 05:25 PM
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Re: Trail Braking

ahh don't worry about it, with your knee down, you can catch a front slide usually.
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 10-20-2008, 07:12 AM
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Re: Trail Braking

I've been following this thread and thought i'd give my .02 cents. Everyone has had great suggestions.

My thoughts are that a lot come from knowing your bike and being comfortable on it. Given that no track day is ever like the last one there are too many variables in play.
Keep in mind that today and tomorrow could be a big difference in track temperature, brake pad wear and temp, tire temp and wear, etc.

All these factors come into play on how hard and how deep you can go. Given that you know your bike just push it until you start getting uncomfortable, then next lap push a little more.

Some good reading to pick is Twist of the Wrist if you're interested. Highly recommend picking up a copy or ask around for a download of the PDF :-D

Thanks!

Last edited by zwampy; 10-20-2008 at 12:55 PM.
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