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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-08-2019 06:47 PM
Straight Success
Re: Doing A Track Day In A/Advanced Group

I was really thinking about trying to do some novice racing in 2019, but I think I'll hold off for maybe a year or so. I think I want to gain even more experience, iron out my mistakes, improve on my riding and building relationships at the track. I'll try to squeeze in as many track days as my money allows (
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), and possibly try to do some novice racing another year. I don't know how you guys pull it off with the costs of everything. Maybe I can get some insight from you all at the track.

For those who have helped me progress to where I am, thanks.
12-09-2018 01:50 PM
Straight Success
Re: Doing A Track Day In A/Advanced Group

Quote:
Originally Posted by High Side View Post
Don't need dual temps at all. I know this will rustle some jimmies so I will preface it with this because I've heard the same arguments over and over again.

- Rain tires don't need warmers. Besides, unless they are waterproof (Capit are the only brand that I'm aware of that make water proof ones), are you going to throw those warmers on wet tires after the first session?
- Tire warmers operate at a regulated temp, there's no way you can "cook" them since they are, indeed, designed to operate at that temperature.

Don't really have to worry about getting slicks 'up to operating temp'. The amount of grip they can offer is relative. Yes a lukewarm slick won't provide the grip it can at full temp, but you're also not riding it hard enough to need that extra grip either. Spending time to "get your tires up to temp" is just pissing money away because you paid for the whole day and now you gotta tip toe around for 1-2 laps each session. That's probably 3-4 minutes a session. Adds up to almost an entire session itself at the end of the day.
That makes a lot of logical sense.

I definitely know I'm not going to be at full lean or pushing 100% in the rain. No way. Not at this level. Sh!t, even MotoGP and MotoAmerica riders don't push at 100% of their capabilities or lean angles in the rain. They back it off some, and you can tell as they're sometimes 3, 4, 5, 6, or even more seconds off of their normal dry track conditions pace.

I have a budget in mind for my warmers, and which ever quality set I can find for the money, they're coming home. I'm not cheaping out, nor am I buying the Bugatti of tire warmers. I'll probabaly go with the Chevy Silverado 1500 Crew Cab model of tire warmers if you get my analogy.
05-24-2018 06:42 PM
High Side
Re: Doing A Track Day In A/Advanced Group

Don't need dual temps at all. I know this will rustle some jimmies so I will preface it with this because I've heard the same arguments over and over again.

- Rain tires don't need warmers. Besides, unless they are waterproof (Capit are the only brand that I'm aware of that make water proof ones), are you going to throw those warmers on wet tires after the first session?
- Tire warmers operate at a regulated temp, there's no way you can "cook" them since they are, indeed, designed to operate at that temperature.

Don't really have to worry about getting slicks 'up to operating temp'. The amount of grip they can offer is relative. Yes a lukewarm slick won't provide the grip it can at full temp, but you're also not riding it hard enough to need that extra grip either. Spending time to "get your tires up to temp" is just pissing money away because you paid for the whole day and now you gotta tip toe around for 1-2 laps each session. That's probably 3-4 minutes a session. Adds up to almost an entire session itself at the end of the day.
05-20-2018 05:46 PM
El Duder
Re: Doing A Track Day In A/Advanced Group

This man knows his stuff ^^^^. Lots of wisdom.
05-20-2018 05:26 PM
TurboBlew
Re: Doing A Track Day In A/Advanced Group

A quality set of warmers like Chicken Hawk or Woodcraft are worth the initial expense. ~~$450ish.
Nickel & diming with a $200 set of warmers leaves ALOT to chance.
I think MotoD might have a cheaper set but compared to my woodcrafts... they look like shit after a few years of use. My buddy has some old Tyr Sox that still work well enough. Even those are over $300.
Then you need a decent gauge because pressures start to get more critical.
There is no magic bullet for tire life. You can use "street" tires if youre not running full pace laps to warm up & find your apexes, etc. Then when youre focused and ready later on... put on better tires.
Never blame the tire(s) for your inefficiency. And fast guys can turn fast laps on just about any tire.
05-20-2018 10:37 AM
Straight Success
Re: Doing A Track Day In A/Advanced Group

With everything being said, I think I've found the first set of slicks I want to try.

I'll do some thread searching to see if I indeed need dual temperature or single temperature warmers. Looking forward to getting better as time progresses.
05-20-2018 08:37 AM
HIS OWN 6
Re: Doing A Track Day In A/Advanced Group

Nice write-up El Duder. I would just add that the whole race/street tire differences at advanced group pace is dependent on the weather. On cool or cold days when it's cloudy and the track stays cold, a slower advanced rider can have trouble keeping heat in the tire. And street tires like the Q3 can hold up to mid/higher advanced pace the whole session. If it's really cold, I'd rather be on street tires. But that's the exception, generally just for those winter track days.
05-20-2018 05:41 AM
El Duder
Re: Doing A Track Day In A/Advanced Group

As the old saying goes, the only way to find the edge is to go past it.

As I said above, you are going fast enough to use slicks, no question. Although I should add to ride in Advanced at my local track you have to be with 15 seconds of the lap record. Which is a big time gap. Slicks are more forgiving and offer more grip at an elevated pace. Not only that, they offer a more consistent and trustworthy feel for the whole session. Just have to pay attention to tire pressure. The down side, they will not last as long as a street tire.

Also, the mental aspect of knowing you are on race rubber vs. street tires is a big thing for me. I would not run in Advanced on street tires, no way. When I first started doing track days, I started on the Bridgestone RS10, which is a very sticky tire that is street legal. I still use it on my dedicated street bike (2016 GSX-S1000) and do occasional track days on it. But the problem with street tires that are trackable, like the SP, is riding in Advanced, they get greasy quickly and do no maintain the same feel throughout the whole session. After about 3-5 laps, they start sliding around a lot and down shifts cause the rear to hop around more and more.

However, if the bike is a dedicated street bike that you track occasionally, slicks makes things more complicated. Not that you cannot ride on the road with slicks, but you just can't ride like you would on the race track with them. For example, I talked to Steve at Dunlop Race Tire Services and he advised me that the GPA is the same compound and construction as the 200/55 and 180/60 slicks, but has siping cut into the tire to make it DOT legal.

Because you are using Pirelli's, the price of slicks will be rather reasonable to you. The 190/55-120/70 set of Dunlop N-tec slicks is $339. The 180/60-120/70 set is $388 (which is bi-directional (you can flip it if you track has more turns one way than the other)). Dunlop race tire services charges $30 for shipping. These are the slicks that MotoAmerica uses.
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I have used the Dunlop Slicks a lot and really really like them. I have used the 200/55 & 190/55 on my ZX10R and R1 quite a bit. I have used the 190/55 and 180/60 on my R6 as well. I use the Medium Plus rear and soft front and the front tire literally last forever. I had about 6 track days on the front before i changed it. I would get about 1.5-2 track days from a rear tire. But my closest track has 9 lefts and 4 rights. So I would always wear out the left side of the tire, which is why I love the 180/60 because you can flip it.

I have been looking for slicks that will last long, so I recently tried a set of R10's. So I ordered a set of R10's (which are on closeout now because of the R11) for $320 shipped from stick boy racing (
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). They were definitely different and handled well, but I don't think they will last any longer unfortunately. But they do have some R10's left, I just ordered another rear for this coming weekend track day.

The dunlop q4 may make sense for you as well, which are $324 per set.

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Also, I use the STG $249 tire warmers.

I could elaborate more, but hopefully some of this helps. @
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; anything to add?
05-19-2018 07:13 PM
Straight Success
Re: Doing A Track Day In A/Advanced Group

I've found deals where I can grab a set between $325-$400 a set depending on sales and promotions. I typically pay about $20-$35 (hook up vs non hook up) per tire for mounting and balancing off the bike. I'm not sure of track vendor pricing, so I'll inquire when I go back.

I currently do not use warmers, but am actively saving for a set. Typically, I take my first session pretty light to start building heat in my tires for later sessions.

Also, I've heard people talk about GPAs, R10s/R11s, Metzler RRs, and of course Supercorsas. As of now, the V2s haven't let me down. I'm just curious if slicks will help with lap times, stability, confidence, etc.
05-19-2018 01:45 PM
tosi
Re: Doing A Track Day In A/Advanced Group

I agree with Duder, you will have no problem keeping race tires hot especially with warmers. There are some great non-slick options that are cheaper and last a bit longer than a standard slick. In my opinion the difference between a full slick and a DOT is negligible.

Dunlop GPA & Bridgestone R10/11 are good options and affordable.
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