Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Installed a 520 conversion on a 2005 R6. Renthal 15T up front, Driven 50T rear (-1,+2) 118T on chain

Researched carefully the correct way to install the sprockets. Renthal is letters out, Driven sticker out. Eyeballed and also used a chain alignment tool to make sure everything sits right. Chain was cleaned before install and lubed after. A tiny bind in the rivet master link that loosened up after lube worked its way in.

Went for an initial cruise after the installment, about 4 miles. On the last mile home, I noticed a intermittent clicking sound. On a stand, i rolled the rear wheel and heard a clicking sound coming from the front sprocket. Seems to happens at a certain point. Sprocket to sprocket, everything is straight. I used one of those chain alignment tools with the alignment rod that attaches to the rear sprocket.

When I loosened the rear axle nut a bit to re-adjust the slack on the chain and rolled the rear wheel, no clicking sound.

Wondering if anyone has any experience with this and can point me in a direction of troubleshooting when I have a chance tomorrow to work on this?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Anyone have an idea? Would sprockets out of alignment result in a "TOCK!"? in the case of sprockets mounted upside down?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,244 Posts
how are you aligning the wheel? By the hash marks?
How much slack does the chain have?
How many revolutions can the rear wheel turn with a simple push on the rear stand?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
how are you aligning the wheel? By the hash marks?

Using the motion pro tool. Attaches to the rear sprocket and aims a rod down the chain to the front. Made sure that was attached flush to the sprocket whenever it got used.

How much slack does the chain have?

1-1/2" on the side stand.

How many revolutions can the rear wheel turn with a simple push on the rear stand?
Wheel with chain, heck, hardly any at all.

Wheel off, axle supported, spins well.

UPDATE:
Determined the sound comes from the rear. After rolling the rear on a stand, I can hear the sound coming from what seems to be in the hub or the axle. With rear end torqued to factory specs and loaded with a rider, it happens at a certain point with an occasional small click in between. Without a rider the sound lessens.

Up on the stand again and torqued to factory, the rear has a bind at a point. Inspected the chain slack, alignment, checked for any links that might be binding....all good. Can't figure out what is creating the bind.

With rear axel torqued to 30ft/lbs (just to hold it on), no sound with or without rider. The bind is less, too, still not smooth rolling but better than before. Checked the spacers, both good. Inner spline bearings seems good, too.

I did notice that the inner spline bearings are wider in diameter than the spacers, meaning the axle will ride on the spacers and not the inner splines. Is this how it rides in there?

My buddy told me his mechanic Dad used to saturate in grease all bearings he was about is install. I didn't install these bearings but the whole rim/bearing/spacer/rotor/cush drive did come from another bike, another 05. Not sure what condition they arrived in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,244 Posts
The needle bearings might need lube. Wheel should spin at least 1.5 revolutions if all is aligned properly and brake isnt dragging.

Dont like those chain tools... Id measure the axle to swingarm axle distance on both sides to make sure youre not off by a significant amount.

Chain should have an inch point 5 or so (play) with you on the bike. freeplay on the sidestand means absolute shit
 

·
UR B-hind Da 8 Ball
Joined
·
6,241 Posts
If you are at stock ride height (not raised, or lowered, changing the swing arm angle), the spec in the manual is set so it takes that in consideration, so it can be measured without the rider. If you change the rear ride height then, yeah, you need to be on the bike.

....but loose (not too loose) is better than too tight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,244 Posts
If you are at stock ride height (not raised, or lowered, changing the swing arm angle), the spec in the manual is set so it takes that in consideration, so it can be measured without the rider. If you change the rear ride height then, yeah, you need to be on the bike.

....but loose (not too loose) is better than too tight.
they give you a "range" because the suspension is set for the mythical 130lb full grown man that wont make the bike sag 60mm when sit on. :secret
 

·
UR B-hind Da 8 Ball
Joined
·
6,241 Posts
You shouldn't have your bike set at 60 mm sag... :secret
 

·
UR B-hind Da 8 Ball
Joined
·
6,241 Posts
...and "the range" takes into consideration the difference between stock ht and the swingarm at the the point where it is completely flat, where the chain is at it's tightest. How much sag and individual rider puts on the bike has no affect on the laws of geometry.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,244 Posts
...and "the range" takes into consideration the difference between stock ht and the swingarm at the the point where it is completely flat, where the chain is at it's tightest. How much sag and individual rider puts on the bike has no affect on the laws of geometry.
Interesting. So a chain should only be adjusted to the OEM spec and not the specific rider, right? :popcorn: Also the motorcycle should not exceed posted speed limits either.

You realize that no 2 bikes have the exact same sag measurements? Matter of fact mine picked up an additional 5mm from cleaning & lubing all the pivot points.
 

·
UR B-hind Da 8 Ball
Joined
·
6,241 Posts
You do realize the the whole purpose in chain slack is to ensure that there is sufficient slack at the point where the chain length is at its longest, i.e. when the axle, swing arm pivot and front sprocket are all in line? Explain to me how that dimension changes based on rider sag. It has zero to do with the extended dimension.

The manual gives you the spec based on stock shock and linkages (ride height not raised or lowered) so that you have a known starting point measurement. If you change the shock length, or the linkages, you now have a starting point and a swing arm angle different from stock, and thus, a different chain length. So, then you do need to change the method.

The absolutely correct way would be to remove the lower shock bolt and place the swing arm in alignment with the sprocket and set the chain slack at that point to about 1/2"-3/4", then put the shock bolt back in, and find out what the slack is. That would be your base line standard. With rider on or off it wouldn't matter, as long as you did it the same every time...but depending on how many hamburgers you ate that day, if you used the rider on method, your sag may change, and thus you starting point changes. Then you deal with sag being a factor. If you used the slack with the shock topped out, that measurement becomes your standard, and the chain length at that point is constant, unaffected by sag.

Rather that go through all that riggormorrow, racers just set it while on the bike. But again, we are talking about a modified ride height situation.
 

·
nom nom nom nom nom nom
Joined
·
1,251 Posts
I've heard of some people getting renthal sprockets that weren't round, so they generated tight spots in the chain.

You can find out if the click or drag is related to the chain by marking the sprocket and chain where it happens, then rotate everything until it happens again. It will either happen with the wheel at one full rotation, or the chain at one full rotation. Then at least you know where the problem lies.

Also, you can pull the chain to the side and rotate the wheel by hand without it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I've heard of some people getting renthal sprockets that weren't round, so they generated tight spots in the chain.

You can find out if the click or drag is related to the chain by marking the sprocket and chain where it happens, then rotate everything until it happens again. It will either happen with the wheel at one full rotation, or the chain at one full rotation. Then at least you know where the problem lies.

Also, you can pull the chain to the side and rotate the wheel by hand without it.
Did that yesterday and determined the issue is the rear, either in the hub or axle assembly. When I torque everything to spec, the wheel doesn't spin as freely and the result is that fricken "TOCK"! With the rear axle nut at less torque, no noise with/without chain and/or rider. I double checked to make sure nothing got left out of rear axle assembly.

That "TOCK" sounds like something moves then snaps back into place. Like a bearing out of place, rotating the wheel eventually forces it back into place? not sure if this could happen on a rear axle bearing.

Checked alignment using measurement, not tool
Checked Proper installment of front/rear sprockets
Checked chain slack 1-1/2", on sidestand
Checked correct installation rear wheel assembly
Checked torque
Checked Rear wheel-true (best that I can tell without measurement tools)
Checked axle-true

Guess I'll start by taking the rear wheel down to a shop and have them check things out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,244 Posts
a bad bearing could manifest itself on a static balancer. Ive been told the needle bearings have a finite life. Doesnt take much for debris to get impregnated in the roller cage. Probably need a magnifying glass to inspect each roller. The regular bearings are easy to check by hand.
You can take the dust seals out and try spinning the wheel.
Also the rear axle torque shouldn't be more than 50 ft lbs. (manual says different)
 

·
nom nom nom nom nom nom
Joined
·
1,251 Posts
Does the sound coincide with any friction while turning the wheel? After the sound is it noticibly easier to turn (until it comes back around again)?

I take it that you've pulled everything apart, cleaned and regreased the needle bearing along with everything else?

Are you sure that all the pieces are there for the rear wheel? And installed correctly?

http://www.hondaeasttoledo.net/OEMp..._(2005_MOTORCYCLE)/REAR_WHEEL_(YZFR6T_-_2005)

After all that, and what you've said you've done here, I'd say it is time to look at replacing the bearings.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Pretty sure I'm not missing any pieces. Followed the manual and double checked that with an OEM diagram like the link you sent, RC51. (Bikebandit site)

26k on the OEM bearings. The bike has not been cared for (it came with a 2k miles-old gold RK chain that was already well rusted) so I figure it why not changeout the bearings.

The noise does happen when spinning the rim with the chain on or off. It's when I back off the torque on the rear axle nut that the sound goes away. That in itself made me double and triple check the parts installation of the rear end. Torqued to the manual's specs of 80lbs, the sound happens at the same rotational point. 50lbs is ok?
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top