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Discussion Starter #1
Hey Guys,

My 05 R6 was sitting in my garage for a long time (years, probably) and now it won't start. It won't turn over at all. The starter motor just goes and goes.

I put in a new battery and spark plugs. I took out the fuel rail and squirted gasoline through it, and made sure all the injectors were patent. The fuel pump squirts out gasoline when I turn on the ignition. I checked the main fuses and a couple under the seat, and they are all good.

I'm not getting any error codes on the display, and I don't seem to have any error codes when I go into diagnostic mode.

I'm stumped. What should I do next? Any help would be appreciated.

Best,
Walt
 

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Crank but no start.

The basics.

You need fuel, air, spark, compression.

On dry Earth, air is pretty much guaranteed.

You've verified that the fuel pump squirts, but have you verified that the injectors are firing? (see diagnostic mode)

You've looked at the spark plugs, but have you verified that they're sparking? (see diagnostic mode)

If all other elements are in place, that just leaves compression. It's easier to run a compression test so do that first. If the numbers are off, check timing mark alignment. Next, check valve lash. (<-- a lengthy involved job)
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Dear Intuit,

I have verified that the injectors are patent, but not that they are firing. In diagnostic mode, I do not hear anything when I do the test. If I do not hear anything, does that mean they are not firing?

When I test the ignition coils, I hear a ticking at the battery. Does that mean I'm getting spark, or do I need an ignition checker?

Best,
Walt
 

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This is a shot of the engine with the throttle body removed.
375670

Do you see the little divit at the six o'clock position for cylinder 1 (and 2, 3, 4) ?

That's where the throttle body injector sprays from.

With that throttle body still on the engine, only the air cleaner removed...
You can twist the throttle and slide the "throttle valves" back.
That done, you might be able to shine a light down there and look for spray in diag mode. Might need to leave the fuel pump connected.

Firing under a wet 12.5/1 or 13.1/1 compression is a lot different than firing under dry open-air. You'll require the spark gap tester; one that opens to a LARGE gap.
375671
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hi Intuit,

I did this in diag mode:

"With that throttle body still on the engine, only the air cleaner removed...
You can twist the throttle and slide the "throttle valves" back.
That done, you might be able to shine a light down there and look for spray in diag mode. Might need to leave the fuel pump connected."

I did not see any fuel being sprayed at the divit, for any of the fuel injectors, with the fuel pump connected. I did hear the fuel pump working.

But when I ran the diag with the fuel pump disconnected (which is how you are supposed to use the diag mode, I think), I did not hear the operating sound of the injector, either, which is what should happen, according to the service manual.

Do you think it is safe to conclude that my injectors are clogged, or could it be that they are not getting signal (since I did not hear the operating sound during the diagnostic test)?

Best,
Walt
 

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Well, in diag mode, pump disconnected per instructions, I could hear my injectors firing. So it seems they're not firing.

Even clogged, I would think that they would still click? Don't know. But what are the chances of all of them simultaneously clogging? I'd start on the assumption that they're not firing. Check the injector fuse though, if that were out, I'd think there'd be more going on than just the injectors not working. Memory serving, there are at least a few things on that fuse. Just checked for my 2008 R6S. The fuel pump and injectors are on the same fuse and relay. The ECU is directly responsible for firing the injectors. THe injectors can be sent out for testing/cleaning. But again, what are the chances of all of them being affected? I'd first confirm that power is reaching them on blue/red wire. (pierce insulation with a straight-pin or safety-pin... being careful not to pierce self) Confirming that they're powered, next I'd want to confirm that the ECU is attempting to ground (fire) them. For that... might need special equipment? Standard voltmeter might not be capable of displaying the change. BTW, in addition to the pump and injectors getting powered on that relay, the ECU itself, also gets power. Test for power at all points. Voltage drop testing when the circuit is loaded to its max potential, will spot bad/weak connections. Voltage drop test across the relay, will verify that relay.

2008 R6S wiring

#17 is the injector
#14 is the ECU

375694

#9 is the fuel injector relay.
#11 is the Starting Circuit Cut-Off Module; containing the relay that sends power to the pump, ECU and injectors
375695
 

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Clogged only affects the atomization and flow rate. The injectors are not getting power since all 4 are dead. I doubt 4 would internally fail at once. Look at R/Blue for an open to ground.. ie corrosion and or the diode.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi guys,

I've never gone after the wiring on a motorcycle before.

Can you tell me where the blue/red wire (@Intuit) and the r/blue wire (@mordantly) are, please?

Best
Walt
 

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The wires terminate in each injector clip on the wiring harness. The other end goes to the ecu.
 

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I actually meant red/blue. Mordantly and I are talking about the same wire. You should be able to see the diagrams I posted.

Don't know where the fuse is off hand.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hey Guys,

There are two connectors that each have spaces for six wires (please see picture): 4 blue/red, 1 gray, and 1 black/white. When I checked the voltage passing through them, 3 of the blue/red wires had voltage (2.3, 3.8, and 4.9 Ohms, I think), but 1 of them did not. The corresponding wires on the other connector had the same voltages.

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When I looked at the other side of the connector that appears to come from the ECU, there seems to be a plug where the wire that would connect to the dead blue/red wire on the other side would go in (please see picture). So I'm not sure that the absence of a reading in one of the blue/red wires is a problem.

375713


What do you think? Any thoughts on what I should do next?

Best,
Walt
 

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The grey and white/black provide feedback from your crank and cam sensors.

I'm confused. You said you checked the voltage but then provide numbers that look like ohms and say ohms.

The ECU runs the fuel pump in diag mode. Based on the circuit diagram, my assumption is those wires should have battery voltage when the fuel pump is running in diag mode.

If your battery is only 11.6v with that pump running, then 11.6v is what you should have there.

If you really were reading volts and not ohms, then test the solid red wire entering the Starting Circuit Cut-Off Module for battery voltage. If you're getting battery voltage there, but low voltage on the red/blue leaving it, then the relay is bad. Placing one lead on the red, the other on the red/blue, is called voltage-drop testing your relay. It shows you how much voltage loss is occurring.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Hi Intuit,

Sorry, I meant volts.

I did test the voltage at both the red and the red/blue wires in the Starting Circuit Cut-Off Module, and they both read about 13 volts.

Does this mean that an adequate amount of voltage is leaving the Starting Circuit Cut-Off Module, but not reaching the connectors downstream?

Unfortunately, I seem to have shorted the fuel pump in the process of testing the Starting Circuit Cut-Off Module. The fuel pump no longer primes when I turn on the motorcycle.

Best,
Walter
 

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Eeek. Does the pump run in run in diag mode? Do you still get battery voltage at the fuel pump?

If you're reading battery voltage leaving the module, but not at the injectors, then assuming that your bike is wired like my 2008 R6S, that would mean that there's a fault in that wire harness somewhere.

Semi-unrelated info:
Place one probe on red entering the module. The other on red/blue leaving the module. That voltage reading is the amount of volts, NOT making it through the relay. So the lower the number, the better. If your battery is reading 12.6 and you have a 2v reading, that's way way excessive. Shouldn't be any higher than say, 1 volt, which is 8% of 12.6v; but even that sounds high.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Dear Intuit,

Can the fuel pump run in diag mode? I don't think I ever got it to do that. It did prime before when I turned the ignition on. It doesn't anymore. I don't seem to be getting any voltage at the fuel pump, at either of the wires running into the green connector at the fuel pump. There is a 12 volt reading in one of the wires running into the white connector at the fuel pump, and zero volts at the other. I think the green connector is the fuel pump connector. I'm not sure what the white one is for.

The red wire going into the Starting Circuit Cut-Off Relay reads 13 volts and the red/blue wire now reads zero volts. I'm pretty sure the red/blue wire used to read 13 volts. These are separate readings.

When I put one lead on the red wire and the other on the red/blue wire (as you suggested), I get a reading of 13 or -13, depending on which lead is on which wire. So maybe no signal is leaving the Starting Circuit Cut-Off Relay on the red/blue wire?

I am not getting any voltage at the red/blue wire at the fuel injectors, and I'm getting the same readings (2, 3, and 4 volts) at the connectors in the pictures in my previous post.

Lastly, I'm now getting a fault code, 22, when I turn on the ignition. According to the service manual, this indicates the following:

"Intake temperature sensor-open or short circuit detected."

I looked at all the connectors and wires visible to me and I can't see any stray wires.

The housing for the Starting Circuit Cut-Off Relay, that I might have fried, is $32. I don't see any damage to it, but maybe it is the cause of both the fuel injectors not firing and the fuel pump not working? Do you think it is worth replacing it?

Best,
Walt
 

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The intake sensor is on the airbox. You need to pull all 7 fuses and check them.
 

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^What he said.

No longer any power through the relay is what you're saying. That explains why the fuel pump doesn't run. If the ECU doesn't throw ground for the green wire leaving the module, then that relay isn't being triggered. I believe the green will read battery voltage when it's being triggered by the ECU.

Yes, if you leave the pump connected and enter diag mode, flip the Run/Off switch, that will run the pump continuously.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi Guys,

Progress, sort of. I removed the cover of the Starting Circuit Cut-Off relay and put a paper clip into the slots for the red and the red/blue wire (please see picture), and the fuel pump started running (with the ignition off), which seems to confirm that I need a new Starting Circuit Cut-Off relay.

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With this setup, the following are the voltage readings at the red/blue wires at the following locations:

At fuel injectors: 14

In between the fuel injectors and the Starting Circuit Cut-Off relay: 2.3 (pictures of these are in previous post)

At Starting Circuit Cut-Off relay: 14

At ECU: 14

Should the red/blue wires in between the fuel injectors and the Starting Circuit Cut-Off relay have 14 volts running through them? Do you think the problem is somewhere between the Starting Circuit Cut-Off relay and the connectors with the red/blue wires with 2.3 volts? If so, do I replace that entire section of wire?

Best,
Walt
 

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Relay is dead.
 
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