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Dude, fucking WHAT? First, chill out with the Caps Lock. Secondly, punctuate. And proofread. I got about three paragraphs in before I gave up entirely on trying to make out what you were trying to say. Were you on the piss, mate?

AS YOU IN AMERICA HEARD OF MARK HECKLES GO HAVE A CHAT WITH HIM ABOUT ME I TUNED A TZR 125 MANY MOONS AGO AND NOVICE RACE AT END HE SIDE BY SIDE 900 FIFRE BLADE HELD OSS FOR 2 LAPS AS YOUR ATMOSPHERE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT I KNOW YOUR SETTINGS OFF BY HEART
BUT YOU NEVER WILL CUT ONE LAMB CHOP GARAGE FIDLER
 

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YOU POINTY LITTLE PRICK GO LISTEN SOME GARAGE PUNK
YOUR PUNCTUATION IS INCORRECT TOTALLY AND BEST TO GIVE UP WITH YOUR IQ YOUR NEVER GONNA GET IT .........................................................................................................JUST FOR YOU
 

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Friendly reminder guys, something I posted some time ago to help get people going in the right direction rather than chase the dragon doing it all wrong:
ALOT CHANGED IN 10 YEARS IF RACING DEFFO FIND WOT JET WONT PULL AT 8500 WOT JET WRONG PILOT CIRCUIT MAJOR PLAYER BUT TOTALLY AGREE FOR A HOME SAFE TUNER BEST WAY SO WHY YEC KIT 10 JET SIZES DOWN OFF WOT?
 

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SEEMS EVERYONE ALREADY EXPERTS FUNNY HOW THESE SETTINGS WORKED FOR NIAL MCKENZIE

GOT EVERY GEARING WHEELBASE AND UTHER GAME CHANGERS FALLING ON DEAF EARS ANU UK RIDERS MENTION "PSYCHO CARBS" YOULL GET MY NUMBER DIRECT LIKE EDWOODWOODWOOD ILL SORT IT
ANY YOU MUGS BREAKING 52FOOT POUND TORQUE YET....... 55FPT ARMCHAIR RIDERS NO R6 IN SIGHT SUCCK A PHAT ONE NEWBIES ANY HELP ILL GLADLY GIVE CHEEP RELIABLE MODS OBTAINING 109 RWP RATHER THAN 96 CALLI GUYS I GET 115 RWP YAM WERE MADE TO FOLLOW STRICT RULES COUPLE SIMPLE MODS IT WILL LEAVE ANY STOCK R6
 

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Dude, fucking WHAT? First, chill out with the Caps Lock. Secondly, punctuate. And proofread. I got about three paragraphs in before I gave up entirely on trying to make out what you were trying to say. Were you on the piss, mate?

YOUR FUNNIEST BIT CENTRE POTS RUN HOTTER LOL LOL LOL YEAH YOU GOT A KH R6

THE OUTER CYLINDERS ABSORB THE INNER HEAT BEFORE DEALING WITH THERE OWN
YOUR SAYING THEY ABSORB THE OUTER HEAT INWARDS "dude" YOU THICK AS SHIT LOVE TO ASK YOU HOW A THERMOSTAT WORKS

STICK TO GARAGE PUNK POINTY LITTLE TIT.
 

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So I have a Ivan jet kit on my R6 and I installed a AEM wideband with datalog function :)
Setup of my bike unchanged (BMC Race, Akra, Ign Adv).

Main: 148
Pilot: 40 (!), 1.5 turns out (more turn it runs very rich during idle)

Full load - main 148 -> may have to go to 150, have to wait for hotter weather, at the moment15-18°C only, I guess in summer it leans out...

377666


The manifold pressure is measured on 2nd cylinder (only).

xyz plot:
377667


377669


Be carful, I didn't made a deep dive into the plots. Higher manifold pressure overlays the lower (last plot!).
I have too rich mixture at 5000rpm during 0 - 1/4 throttle (70-80 km/h constant speed).
In city at 50km/h no too rich mixture -> pilot / idle is ok!

I think I will try to put the needles one step down.

Super smooth throttle anyway, stron pulls but I test it slow, don't want any bad supprises during riding ;)
More datalogs will follow. I will also record some longer constant speed and constant throttle in different engine speeds for better understanding later the effects of changes.
 

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So yesterday I lowered the needle one step (2nd from top).
Low load cruise went from lambda 0.7 to lambda 0.8, full load lambda 0.95 - bigger main jet (will try 148 -> 152 or 155, not sure at the moment - middle 152 and outside 155 is maybe worth to try).
Pilot jet 40 I have to measure if the size is correct - seems quite rich, may I have to step back to 38.
Needle position back in the middle and retesting. When this is not working in the right direction I will try to contact Ivan for some recommendation.

Will check the datalog later and create some plots (will cut the lambda > 1 measurings from coasting).
 

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my gen1 has a Factory pro kit in, #152 on outsides, #148 insides. #38 or #40 pilot, the shop receipts are confusing. I had the bike dynoed fall 2020, idle mix was just slightly lean, higher rpm going slightly rich. Can post the dyno run here if you'd like. I don't know the A/F screw settings- FactoryPro says 3.5 turns on their jets.
 

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I think I can compare it 1:1 cause of my BMC race air cleaner and because it's an Ivan Jetkit.
Some guys from UK told me to kick out the Ivan needle and use the OEM Yamaha needle.
I think I will do this for a direct compare.
 

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This is the setup sheet that I found in the pile of docs with the bike. I have shop receipts for the install but given the A/F observed in the dyno run I wonder if there was undocumented tuning, one of the sheets has prices for #40 pilots OTOH my idle is a slight bit lean so I'm skeptical they are in place. Note the needles and shims in the kit, likely I'm not on the factory parts. My bike has a Hindle pipe, so I think i have and "unrestrcted" install. Using a factory filter, airbox, ram- no mods there.

I've not had the carbs out of the bike since the tune is pretty good and the carbs are a proper pita to get at.


377675
 

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Attached the datalog - it's a little bit tricky cause I only drive some minutes but didn't perform a "test cycle" as I have no information about throttle position or something like that.

377676


Right side - needle one clip down.

Will change pilot jet to 38, install yamaha needle - middle position.
152 outside, 155 inside main jet. Thinner needle inside. More fuel for 2+3 but hotter air means leaner than 1+4.

377677


Didn't expect this big change in WOT fueling to be honest.

Your factory pro sheet looks like YZF 600R Thundercat, no R6?! Install sample date 1998???
3.5 turns out - 40 pilot may better choice...
 

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Your factory pro sheet looks like YZF 600R Thundercat, no R6?! Install sample date 1998???
3.5 turns out - 40 pilot may better choice...
No, that is a 99 R6 data sheet. The R6 was released in fall of 98. Plus, The Thundercat never had different jets installed inner and outer.
 

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Agree, see top of sheet "R6". It might have #40's installed, I have a recept showing them purchased- OTOH I am likely running the factorypro needles, so A/F screws for you are likely different. My dyno run shows AFR mostly below 1 in higher gears WOT, but few excursions not far above at 5k and lower- your lean peaks make me think you need more fuel thru the needles. Your low end a lot richer than mine, so #38's might be right- but probably depends a lot on the AF screws.

Once I had the carbs sorted on the Bandit could go from plug fouling to dry with 1/2 turn on the AF screws.
 

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Yes I think pilot 38 would fit better (40 and 1.5 turns out at the moment - Lambda 1 at idle) -> I think 38 at 2.5-3 turns out will fit for the idle.
I will compare the needle diameter in closed conditions - got the information in UK R6 group that Ivan needles are way rich. Better use Stock needles. I will check this and compare the sizes - to know what to order maybe when everything else fits good.
The air pilot jet might shift the low load fueling into rich but I will double check -> not that I reversed them. But I think I checked this.
How ever, great experiences so far - with the lambda tool I'm able to really see what happens and not only feel.
 

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Yesterday I measured some needles. I made it quite simple. Marked with edding the closed position and the complete open position.
Ivan needle is close 2.46mm - Dynojet and Yamaha are 2.5mm - so rich mixture in low loads are a clear result.
Completely open it a little bit strange but somehow clear. Ivan I measure 1.86mm - the Dynojet is 1.77mm and Yamaha I depends. N7RA is 2.07mm and N7SA is 1.7mm. Cause I only have 2 N7SA I used the DynoJet needle. I think it’s DynoJet because of 6 clip positions.
One clip down is 0.1mm smaller dia.
I installed main jet 155 1+4 and 152 2+3. (stock Yamaha 01 is 152 1+4 and 148 2+3 with N7RA - outside cylinder hotter cause of the cover of the bike? Or fresh air in the middle - I think Yamaha knows best).
How ever - the smaller dia should lead to enough fuel at WOT - I don’t have bigger Jets yet. But with the different needle I have a good feeling. Pilot jet 38, 2.5 turns out. May I have to use 40 but I have to think about the effect of the air jets (main air stock 110 - Ivan 68, pilot air stock 110 - Ivan 105).
So far my understanding is smaller air jet - more vacuum -> more fuel. This could explain the massiv rich mixture in part load I had (maybe more rich than normal pilot yet change could explain). I would expect now a much leaner running bike. Maybe too lean. But I think playing with the clip position now makes some more sense and I will see if I have to replace some jets still. How ever. Will keep you informed. Funny stuff when I think about the guys which made carb setting according to the engine sound 50 years ago.
But I also start to understand why you have thousands of different needles…
 

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I made the needles 2 clips down.
WOT still Lambda 0.9, with 7/8 throttle lambda 0.85 - so the vaccum sucks in more fuel.
Some too rich area too but I don't care at the moment. I try to get the mixture rich at WOT.
I will try the mod I have seen on other carbs - blocking the main air jet.
I will let you know about results. When I'm able to get enough fuel in the engine I can start to work out needles or buy the stock air cleaner...
 

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I tried a lot even with smaller main jets but it's still running rich - all time.
I step back to standard main jet, needle and 40 pilot jets.

I used google and it seems all the jet kit supplier used some 1999 R6 carb for the development but Yamaha changed something on the carbs (special for Europe) and this cause always a too rich mixture. You can find a lot of stuff about the Ivan jet kit and Factory Pro too. They also write it on the website, something with the choke? Don't know.
The main air jet exchange seems to be the wrong way - my bike is always running Lambda 0,8 or richer with that. I tried different needles and smaller main jets.

What I know - so far - with standard jetting I could have a lean mixture at WOT because of my exhaust. Bigger main jet would bring a rich spot at 8000rpm and for this I need different needles (I hope some of my needles will work).

However, I will try and log it without short velocity stacks and then make a compare with them.
I want to see what exactly happens. There is too much legend telling in the internet -> no lambda/AFR log files nothing available. Only "feel" the right jet size etc.
From my experience -> even with lambda 0.8 you feel the power but it's running way too rich. Don't want too much fuel in the oil.

Regarding needles I'm not sure if N427 will fit, no real mentioning somewhere for this carbs and so far no Keihin dealer has something to support available.
Mikuni Topham told me they blocked the main air jet and used the N7RA needle but I only have 2 of them.
For open air cleaner (K&N and BMC Race) you need to do this but you need also special needles.
WOT has less vaccum than 7/8 throttle. When WOT fuel fits and need a bigger needle short below the WOT position.
This make the tunning via clips much more difficulty of course. But I feel this is not impossible.
My main issue with the needles is that I need to know the position for the vaccum pressure / throttle position - I'm not sure if I can use the vaccum value and check it with some vaccuum pump on a carb on the desk.
Some sensor or a really small camera would be great to check the lift but I will keep you updated.

For the moment my aim is to drive the stock configuration with ok lambda values (WOT 0,9 - 0,85) and part load ~0,95 - because summer is over now in Germany. And then I will check the impact of the velocity stacks (shall be main jets 1 step bigger because of the velocity at the needles).
 

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I looked at my dyno curves- at WOT I'm mostly rich all over, heavily rich at 9k, about at lambda 1 at 13.5, a bit lean above there, 3/4 throttle is a bit flatter- not lean anywhere but likewise rich and very rich at 6k.

Might be you're pretty close with the tune- or perhaps your sensitive measurement is showing lots of detail that my runs do not.
 

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What is your configuration? Sounds like some open air cleaner setup?

I think with a step by step measurement I make better progress. Even when I have to dismount the carbs 2-3 times more.
The main issue with the needles is that I don't know which catalog needle they are.
 

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Aftermarket slipon (Hindle), OEM airbox and filter. The tune is good so I've not taken the carbs off, I'm going from the Factorypro setup sheet from the early 2000's that I found in the pile of docs. I have a receipt suggesting that #40 pilots were bought and perhaps installed, but no docs on the original tune done ie AF screws. My idle is a bit lean, but on the rich side everywhere else. No problems with fouling, old sparkplugs were a bit worn but reasonably clean (would not be surprised if they were the originals- original owner and the one after him didn't do much work on the bike- just put it in the shop for the jet kit and oil changes)


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