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Discussion Starter #1
Running an 09 R6, sagged to my weight of 180, front end shows 1 line on forks, so the front end is lowered ~5mm. At the moment I'm running a 190/55 but got a screamin deal on a 190/60 GPA. Is there a way to lower the stock shock to compensate for the rear tire, or should I just flush the forks on the triple to compensate for the difference? Suspension is stock, motor is stock.
Was at Barber three weeks ago and ran front adv, or 1:37's and 38's.
Any advice??
 

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Running an 09 R6, sagged to my weight of 180, front end shows 1 line on forks, so the front end is lowered ~5mm. At the moment I'm running a 190/55 but got a screamin deal on a 190/60 GPA. Is there a way to lower the stock shock to compensate for the rear tire, or should I just flush the forks on the triple to compensate for the difference? Suspension is stock, motor is stock.
Was at Barber three weeks ago and ran front adv, or 1:37's and 38's.
Any advice??
On an 09 R6, if you had only 1 line showing above the triple, wouldn't the front ride height be raised 5mm? Cause they come with the forks set at the second line and that is the stock ride height. Each line is 5mm.

You can remove the 2mm shim from the top of the stock shock to help offset the rear ride height change. That is the only way to adjust rear ride height with the oem shock.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Ahh you are correct sir. I bought the bike used from someone else and didn't really know anything about R6's, just wanted a track bike. They were flushed out when I got it. Original rider was also 6'5" though, so maybe that's why.
How hard is that to do? Riding tomorrow, does it take long to remove shim?

However, the 55 is taller than stock, so the front feels good at +5. In theory, if I flushed out the forks, would it not come close again to the 60? I know it still changes rake and trail a little, though
 

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Ahh you are correct sir. I bought the bike used from someone else and didn't really know anything about R6's, just wanted a track bike. They were flushed out when I got it. Original rider was also 6'5" though, so maybe that's why.
How hard is that to do? Riding tomorrow, does it take long to remove shim?

However, the 55 is taller than stock, so the front feels good at +5. In theory, if I flushed out the forks, would it not come close again to the 60? I know it still changes rake and trail a little, though
It's not too difficult to remove the shim. I think you may have to lift the tank to get at the top of the shock to unthread the bolt there..

I'd try it as is with the 60. The 211's are pretty tall themselves which raises the bike up as well. Flushed up forks aren't too uncommon. I've ran into more than a few people who feel that they can flush the forks up to try for more trail and stability in the setup.. I've never had good luck with that setup for any of our riders as it always runs wide.

IMO, going up 2mm in the rear will problem be a welcomed change. The 60 is only gonna be like 2mm or so taller. I don't think it'll be 5mm for you. If anything, you'll run less wide on corner exits under throttle with the new rear tire. Try it. Worst case you pull the shim at lunch or something.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sounds good, I'll see how she handles. Rode a friends 07 for a session with the 60 three weeks ago at Barber, definitely takes some getting used to in my opinion, but I'll welcome more contact and hopefully better turn in.
Thanks for the help!:cheers:YEA
 

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Sounds good, I'll see how she handles. Rode a friends 07 for a session with the 60 three weeks ago at Barber, definitely takes some getting used to in my opinion, but I'll welcome more contact and hopefully better turn in.
Thanks for the help!:cheers:YEA
:cheers

Those tires suck to try to get turning quickly. The front tire profile is so squared on them. That's a battle you'll never win right there. I spent a fortune on these tires and testing in preparation for last years AMA rounds. They are a real bear to deal with man.

Let us know how it goes!
 

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he lost me at "Screamin deal on the GPA" .. LOL.. Screaming is what some do when the find out how much less grip those ama spec tires have vs. nearly any other race rubber out there, including dunlops own UK ntec.

ok, funny business outa the way. As Anthony suggested, i would just put it on and ride it. Keep in mind you only use 2nd-4th gear at barber. Do NOT try to gear your bike for "6th on the longest straight" as the ol' wives tale goes.

IF you decide to pull the shim, as CSD said, you WILL have to raise the tank, break the large shock nut on top loose that holds the shackle to the frame, then put jack stands under the pegs, likely remove the rear wheel, drop the swingarm enough to allow the shim to come off the top of the shackle bolt.. Now that you have it off, use a dremmel to CUT the front away. This way you can slide it in and out by simply loosening the nut on top, you won't have to drop the swingarm all the way down.. When i was bouncing back/forth from the 180 to the 190 rears, we would just add/remove the shim according to which rear we used. Michelin still offers a 180 tire.. at THAT track, it may work VERY well with all the fast direction changes.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Tire ended up working out well at setting I already had! Loved the geo and didn't mess with it at all. On the back chicane the bike didn't flick quite as well, but definitely didn't go as wide as I was at my last day. However I can't decide now whether or not to stick with the 60 or to return to the 55 and set the geo close to how it was with the 60.
The only downside is with the 55 I was running a -1/+2 gearing at Barber, which I think I've come to find is a little too high. When putting on the 60 I didn't have enough clearance for the warmers, and only brought a spare 45 with me, forgetting about possible clearance issues. So, I ran the 60 on -1/+0, which in my opinion wasn't right. Bike felt very underpowered coming out of charlottes, museum and T2.

However, the only reason I was there this past weekend was to help a friend out and get him choosing better lines. He paid for my track day and gave me his 190/60 rear which had one day on it, so that is why I couldn't turn it down. Got him from low 1:50's to 1:42ish. Not bad, but still not where he could be with the bike he's on.
Despite the gearing mistake and getting use to difference in tire, still managed to turn a few 38's and 39's while I was waiting for him to get on the track (he's one of those guys that comes on 5 mins late and off a lap or two early lol, and it was his first advanced day)

To say the least I ended up liking the 60, but I did feel like it robbed the bike of some power with its extra weight. Now I'm trying to decide whether or not to stick with the 60 or go back to the 55 and try out different gearing.
What tires do you guys run?
My buddy was running the dunlop slicks
 

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i run stock gearing with a 190/55 rear tire, and was running 1:32's lap times, this was in Aug, 2009 well before the recent repave (the repave is good for a little faster lap time as well).
I can not imagine how you would use -1/+2 gearing without reving to the moon .. are you are in 2nd gear in charlotes (t5) and the museum turn right ?? or are you in 3rd gear. If you are using 3rd to 5th that may work, but isn't how most are doing it.. 2nd to 4th gear.

I do see in my notes that i should try 16/46 gearing next time, but this is also using a 116 link chain. If i have the stock length chain of 114 links (as i do now) i run 15/43 gearing or 15/42 (same 16/45)
 

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Discussion Starter #10
yeah, pretty sure, don't have gear indicator though so I'm not 100%. I do agree though, after running 15/45 it felt like the -1/+2 was way too much with the 55, I was maxing out my gears too quickly. However the motor is almost 100% stock. Previous owner had MJS header, Two Bros exhaust, PC5 and a BMC, but it he autotuned it himself. Since I've had it I switched the two bros out for GYTR, but it desperately needs a tune, runs very rich I think.
Suspension is also stock, which I feel like also holds me back. I think next time I go back I'm going to try the 55 on a 15/45 and see what that's like. Hopefully I can get a tune by then
 

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well keep this in mind, you won't be 100% throttle at that track all THAT much, so don't concern yourself with the HP issues. In fact, the 09 r6 you have, has more HP midrange than the supersport built on race gas 07r6 i raced there (or pretty much any 06-07 r6). You are on the side of the tire a bunch, mid corner you are no where near 100% throttle, so a bit LESS hp could actually make the bike easier to ride there.
Running -1/+2 gearing, no matter how big and heavy the tire is, likely is holding you back and making mid corner throttle application sketchy.. as well as having you between gears at times.
you only use 3 gears on that track.. a good rider with a nice drive out of some of those corners will blow by a lesser rider with more hp, cause the lesser rider just won't feel comfortable getting on the gas as early, or as much, and isn't carrying as much lean angle/corner speed.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
well keep this in mind, you won't be 100% throttle at that track all THAT much, so don't concern yourself with the HP issues. In fact, the 09 r6 you have, has more HP midrange than the supersport built on race gas 07r6 i raced there (or pretty much any 06-07 r6). You are on the side of the tire a bunch, mid corner you are no where near 100% throttle, so a bit LESS hp could actually make the bike easier to ride there.
Running -1/+2 gearing, no matter how big and heavy the tire is, likely is holding you back and making mid corner throttle application sketchy.. as well as having you between gears at times.
you only use 3 gears on that track.. a good rider with a nice drive out of some of those corners will blow by a lesser rider with more hp, cause the lesser rider just won't feel comfortable getting on the gas as early, or as much, and isn't carrying as much lean angle/corner speed.
Couldn't agree with you more here. The friend I spent the majority of the day trying to coach is on an 07 r6 with a built motor on u4.4, I think he puts down around 130. He's got a nicely built bike, but I can still do work on him by about 6 seconds every lap. Given, a lot of that is difference in the rider, but I did get the chance to do a session on it. Was very different from mine, in that I could throttle out harder and smoother than I could on his bike. Guess a lot of it has to do with rider input as well though. However, I do think suspension would be a big help, as Barber has a fair share of elevation changes and technical sections.
Just curious, when are you planning on another track day and where at? We're looking to venture out from Jennings, Barber and Road A.

I think I'm going to go back to the 55 though and try the 15/45 and see what that's like. My goal is 34's after my next day at Barber. Not sure how realistic that is on stock suspension, but I'll try
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
What do you suggest I do then? I run front pack advanced at all the tracks I ride, so I don't really have any other choice.

College kid on a budget here, I work all summer so I can afford to ride during school year. Hoping to fit the bike with Ttx and carts by end of summer though. Only a matter of time
 

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step 1 is to get off the ama spec GPA's, instant 1 second + right there. Chief isn't kidding. You don't HAVE to have the best wammy jammy suspension, but you can not go faster on that tire. Sure, the pro's were laying down sub 1:29's (barber) on those tires.. but they are pro's, on bikes with more than a few smart guys sorting out suspension and setup for THAT specific track for that specific weekend..

you and I are not those guys. Buy the best tire your money can buy. The ama spec gpa is not that tire. I run michelin cup dot tires. won every race at Homestead miami speedway flag-to-flag last weekend (when the AMA guys were at Barber). the front tire is amazing. you can not go fast without feel in the front. That tire works. The pirelli is a very good tire, so is the dunlop uk ntec.. but the dunlop ama spec tire will cost you 1+ second a lap.

from there it's just what do you want to do. I would look for a used shock, or message Tim Godshal at JRi shocks to see if he has a used unit. That is all i run now, sold both my TTX ohlins and never looked back. Also look into a 20mm fork kit vs a more expensive 25mm kit. Or, even have a race tech guy revalve and respring your stock stuff. I run race tech valving in my offroad bikes in the stock shock and forks ..
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You like the Cups over the Dunlops? Idk, maybe it's just me, I actually prefer the Dunlop profile though, I have a better feel for trail-braking on it than I did the Cups, but I have no tried the Pirelli's. I've heard nothing but good things about those tires.

I might try the Cups out again though, a lot of STT guys run them, ad prices aren't too bad. I guess the main reason I run the dunlops is because I get them from a local shop for 350ish a set, anything else I've looked at is more expensive and I have to pay shipping.

As far as suspension, a good friend I do all my track days with just upgraded to the JRI, so he's selling me his TTX rear and Ohlins damper for $850, and the shock was freshly serviced last week and hasn't been used since. For the front, I ordered a set of springs from STG, and am getting the 20mm valving put in. $1200 isn't too steep for me for the setup. I'd love a JRI, but the local shops want 1300+ new and I haven't found any used yet in the area. Still haven't seen many on WERA either
 

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You like the Cups over the Dunlops? Idk, maybe it's just me, I actually prefer the Dunlop profile though, I have a better feel for trail-braking on it than I did the Cups, but I have no tried the Pirelli's. I've heard nothing but good things about those tires.

I might try the Cups out again though, a lot of STT guys run them, ad prices aren't too bad. I guess the main reason I run the dunlops is because I get them from a local shop for 350ish a set, anything else I've looked at is more expensive and I have to pay shipping.

As far as suspension, a good friend I do all my track days with just upgraded to the JRI, so he's selling me his TTX rear and Ohlins damper for $850, and the shock was freshly serviced last week and hasn't been used since. For the front, I ordered a set of springs from STG, and am getting the 20mm valving put in. $1200 isn't too steep for me for the setup. I'd love a JRI, but the local shops want 1300+ new and I haven't found any used yet in the area. Still haven't seen many on WERA either
that's a decent prices for a shock and damper, don't forget you need the fork bracket for the ohlins damper. (i sold each of my ttx shocks for $850 per..)

What power cup did you use.. it makes a difference. and did you pull the forks through the clamp 5mm to account for the taller front tire ?

Dan Ortega runs AMA and ccs/ASRA. He races michelin in the ccs/asra and dunlop spec dunlop in ama (no choice). he is consistantly over a second faster on the cups than the spec dunlops. Stefano Mesa (winner of the Road America ama ss race) ran the cups last season in ccs with me, he won races and was clearly faster on them than when on the spec ama tire..
I could give you many other examples, including the fact that i can beat some very good racers when they are on the spec dunlop, but not beat them when they are on the dunlop ntec. (and considering i help these guys with setup stuff i know what tire they are on ;) ).

i could go on and on.. including the fact that arguably the best suspension tech in roadracing, Mike "Thermosman" Fitzgerald, says the michelin cup is the best tire in the paddock.

i'm telling you, if you wanna go faster, do NOT run the ama spec dunlop. there is a reason those tires are $350 a set. Cups are $50 or so more a set. your call .
 
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