Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
52 Posts
You shouldnt be braking while you are leaning the bike over in the turn, you should be braking to speed before the turn an then accelerating through it. If you have to brake make sure it is very lightly. Its always better to come into a turn a little slow than to come into it too hot an shoot it wide. Thats my opinion anyway.
 

·
TAKE IT TO THE TRACK !!!
Joined
·
550 Posts
Always try to get your braking done in a straight line, you can brake some what while leaning but the more you lean the less braking you will be able to do, also while in the turn you should keep the throttle steady and gentle apply more throttle as you exit the corner.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
what love R6's said is what I do... anchors hard in straight line, get body set up for corner, off brakes, smooth throttle, pile it on as i get past the apex, sit up again as i go WOT.
 

·
Custom User Title
Joined
·
1,827 Posts
depends

braking before a corner, letting off, turning in, neutral throttle, then get on the gas is the newb way, and it upsets the suspension and chassis a bit. (this is NOT the ideal way to enter a turn)


Trail braking IS the ideal way to enter a turn. trail braking is a spectacular way to help settle the bike into the corner. i'm not going to get into it, but i suggest you purchase some reading on motorcycle riding techniques, such as twist of the wrist 1 and 2.

also completely depends on where you are doing the turning, canyon's or at the track? location also depends on body position. at the track my body is set up for the corner on the exit of the previous corner. i never have two cheeks on the seat except for the frotn straight away.
 

·
best used over 10,000rpm
Joined
·
269 Posts
If you ask 5 different racers this question, you get (most likely) 5 different answers.
Next time your watching moto gp, just look at the different styles when entering a turn.

Reading the twist of the wrist books is a good idea, they go into alot of detail on the subject.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
49 Posts
It sounds like you haven't taken the MSF course which I strongly recommend. After that read the books and maybe even take the advanced MSF course. NEVER brake or down shift in a turn; it's all bad.
 

·
RACE READY MODE
Joined
·
207 Posts
Brake, Look, Turn, Accelerate. This is what I was taught in my MSF course. Of course I never do it in order. I seem to look and turn at the same time when I go into the turns. You never want to brake while turning. When you do, Good Luck. But use the Brake, Look, Turn and Accelerate method.
 

·
TAKE IT TO THE TRACK !!!
Joined
·
550 Posts
Brake, Look, Turn, Accelerate. This is what I was taught in my MSF course. Of course I never do it in order. I seem to look and turn at the same time when I go into the turns. You never want to brake while turning. When you do, Good Luck. But use the Brake, Look, Turn and Accelerate method.
:confused: That's like saying to wheelie:Give alot of gas and hold at balance point.
 

·
crashing aint so bad
Joined
·
2,271 Posts
The CHP officers on the motorcycles are trained to stop and use the clutch with all 4 fingers. Any time the brakes are being used the other hand must be covering the clutch lever. All braking is to be done this way while the bike is straight up no matter what, as explained to me. This is why I never fear running from a motorcycle cop. The first time he tries going into a turn at the speed I will be doing, he will likely shit his pants. He won't see a brake light untill he has stopped and turned back around. How do i know this. While he is braking straight up I will have gone another 50-100 or more feet off the brakes at a speed greater than that of his. I will arrive to about the same speed if not faster and get on the gas at about the same time he will ( likley sooner )in the turn. I will have gained so much more ground in that time, that turn after turn I will loose him.

The fastest way to go on the track or street is trail braking into the turn. This is to say that you enter the turn faster than an average joe, come to about the same speed and are coming out of the turn faster if you are good at getting back on the gas. The general rule of throttle is to get back on the gas as soon as possible and accelerate through the turn smoothly. The safe way of performing that task is to brake first and then get on the gas. If you watch the MOTO G.P. guys they are off the gas untill about the apex of the turn. If you checked out a lot of thier telemetry it would confim that most are on the brakes untill about the apex at which time they are quickly getting into the gas and accelerating.

The proper way of trail braking and acquireing speed is created with lots of practice. The only way to do it is to go into the turn waiting longer to apply the brakes apply them gingerly untill the point you apply throttle. This takes practice because you usually have no idea how much you can really brake at lean or how fast you can really go into a turn. You have to master a lot of things at once. The best practice is to start slow. think about how fast you normally go into a turn. STOP. Ok now think about when you start and stop braking STOP. Ok now how fast are you actually traveling as you were coasting through the turn before you got back on the gas STOP. The speed you were coasting at and the time spent doing it is what you are trying to get rid of.

ok you come into a turn before applying the brakes at 50 M.P.H. you want to make the turn doing 40 M.P.H.. Ok you know that you can do 40 at any point in the turn at full lean. Ok so how fast can you go before you get to full lean. That is what you are figuring out. So instead of slowing down while going straight to 40 and then accelerating back up as the bike leans over you go n to the turn at 45 with brakes applied letting off gradually as you come to the desired speed at which point you gently get back on the gas. See that wasn't so hard. The average joe is getting back on the gas about 2/3 rds of the way through a turn. That is to say they went in to the turn at the speed they wanted off the gas and coasted the rest of the way to the point where they got back on the gas again. Thats a long way. I will be on the gas just before apex if not sooner ( NEVER LATER THAN depending on the type of turn) and go into the turn faster than most. I will be on the brakes untill I am on the gas. Rule #1 in racing: If you are not on the gas you are on the brakes( you do not coast ). Rule #1 for braking is: Wait untill you see god then brake. Rule # 1 for throttle is: Once you get on the gas in a turn you will smoothly and constantly accelerate through the rest of the turn.

All of this takes practice and other people may have a better way of learning it than me. This is pretty much how I did it. Wait longer to get on the brakes, keep them on into and through a portion of the turn, get back on the gas and accelerate smoothly. Good luck and be carefull.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
It took me a while to consciously remember that while trail braking you need to squeeze the lever on...and slowly release it as you reach the apex or whatever marker you use to get back on the gas. Remembering that I couldn't just let go of the brake took some getting used to.

Braking should be...apply brake lightly, squeeze hard to do 70% of your slowing down while straight up and down, and as you tip the bike into the turn, slowly start releasing the brake lever as you reach your desired lean angle.

luke's got some good info in his post above.

If you're not comfortable braking quite hard straight up and down, I wouldn't recommend trying this yet.

It definitely takes practice.
 

·
Redline.......White Light
Joined
·
751 Posts
yeah....so.... ummm. with this quote, "Rule #1 for braking is: Wait untill you see god then brake." LUKE my man, you are my new friend. I am now a changed rider. Thank you..... and next time i am in CA, we will go riding.
 

·
crashing aint so bad
Joined
·
2,271 Posts
I just wish I could say I coined that phrase. An older moto g.p. god came up with it. Can't remeber his name. Could be freddie spencer. Any way he was explaining the best way to go fast around the track, and that was what he had to say about braking. There is an artical in sport rider from a couple years ago with that sentance in it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
80 Posts
So long as your not literally seeing god its good advice.

The idea behind braking is to reduce the speed you're going to your proper turn in speed as FAST as possible. That means braking extrememly hard over the shortest possible distance. And then as you spend time practicing to compress the number of feet it takes you to get from 160 to 80 or whatever the proper speed is for turn in...you'll probably end up trail braking by accident.

Don't bite off too much too quick though. If you go in there thinking you'll just hammer the brakes mindlessly...you'll end up on your head.
 

·
Yamaha Blue in any color
Joined
·
3,250 Posts
I'll throw something different out just to stir the pot (not like you guys need it :) ).

Why brake?

Many of the road racing schools have started doing a "no brakes" session, where you are to try to get around the track without using the brakes. You still downshift an all, obviously, but you ride the session without brakes. Does a lot for making you think about what it will take to get around the corner, and since speed changes are not as abrupt, many pilots find themselves going faster than when they use the brakes.

Food for thought. Not that I believe it would be practical in use, but the drill does make you think.
 

·
crashing aint so bad
Joined
·
2,271 Posts
I think that exercise is just for the purpose of finding out how fast you can really go into a turn. I wouldn't practice that on the street. To many things to hit when you really needed to brake. I have tried that exercise before and I find that it only slowed me down a little because of anticipation. You arent going to careen into a turn after doing 130 m.p.h. into an 80 m.p.h. turn. I found for me that the best way of finding out how fast you can go into a turn is simply turning faster.

It was part reading twist of the wrist and part bald tire that helped me realize it. I read in twist of the wrist II that you should turn as fast as possible. I had also read somewhere that you should ride on bald tires to get an idea for traction limits. So I put the 2 together one day and realized the finding of the end of traction. I went into a turn about 10 M.P.H or more faster than I normally did and wrenched those bars into the turn faster than I ever had before. Low and behold about the time I started getting good lean the front started pushing. I was already well comited and just kept going down and started easing into the gas. It arrested the front slide and I continued on through the turn. Ok well now I know how fast that turn can be made on dead tires now.

I feel that braking is the single most important element of achieving speed. If you are the best at braking than any one in your group, and arent really any faster in the turns. You can out brake them every time and still make some ground. Once you are super confident with braking you can push other limits and know how to take back a little control when things get out of hand. I found that after I was no longer worried about slowing the bike down for a turn I could push a little harder into the turns and concentrate on other things like turning faster and later than I had in the past.
 

·
Yamaha Blue in any color
Joined
·
3,250 Posts
I think that exercise is just for the purpose of finding out how fast you can really go into a turn. I wouldn't practice that on the street. To many things to hit when you really needed to brake. I have tried that exercise before and I find that it only slowed me down a little because of anticipation. You arent going to careen into a turn after doing 130 m.p.h. into an 80 m.p.h. turn. I found for me that the best way of finding out how fast you can go into a turn is simply turning faster.

It was part reading twist of the wrist and part bald tire that helped me realize it. I read in twist of the wrist II that you should turn as fast as possible. I had also read somewhere that you should ride on bald tires to get an idea for traction limits. So I put the 2 together one day and realized the finding of the end of traction. I went into a turn about 10 M.P.H or more faster than I normally did and wrenched those bars into the turn faster than I ever had before. Low and behold about the time I started getting good lean the front started pushing. I was already well comited and just kept going down and started easing into the gas. It arrested the front slide and I continued on through the turn. Ok well now I know how fast that turn can be made on dead tires now.

I feel that braking is the single most important element of achieving speed. If you are the best at braking than any one in your group, and arent really any faster in the turns. You can out brake them every time and still make some ground. Once you are super confident with braking you can push other limits and know how to take back a little control when things get out of hand. I found that after I was no longer worried about slowing the bike down for a turn I could push a little harder into the turns and concentrate on other things like turning faster and later than I had in the past.
Very good points, however I was not talking street at all. It's an eye opening experience on the track.

I'd disagree if I was looking to debate, as I feel balance is the single most important element, but I'm really busy and was trying to stimulate conversation. We'll have to pick up some time. I like the way you think and articulate yourself. :fact
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top