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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi there,
My name is Yogev, I am a student and my university is participating in the Formula SAE competition. For those who never heard about, Its an engineering competition between universities students around the world of building and racing a Formula car.
We are highly interesting in one of the YZF-R6 engine versions. My questions are:
1) Is there a preferred model (year) that is:
* Light weight
* Have a simple electricity requirement / don't have a lot of sensors.
* Have a performance options (without increasing the capacity)
2) Is there any benefit of turbo-charging a 0.6L engine (For example using Garrett GT15 or GT1241)?
3) The SAE rule:
"The engine(s) used to power the car must be a piston engine(s) using a four-stroke primary heat cycle with a displacement not exceeding 610 cc per cycle. "
4) In addition a 20mm diameter restrictor is located in the intake manifold.
Thanks in advance for your help
Yogev
 

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Hey there! I was a student at Purdue and was on their FSAE team. Definitely a fun club and the best way to learn stuff. That being said, there is ton to consider with each an part chosen on the car.

I don't know weights off the top of my head of each motor, but as far as power output, newer is better.

All engines will have a sensor on the cam and crank to keep track of engine position. I believe every motor since Yamaha went FI on the R6 is an inductive crank and hall effect cam sensor. They all have coil on plug so you don't have to screw with distributors or spark plug wires. Every motor regardless of make is going to have a 3-phase type stator for the charging circuit. Use the stock rectifier and you're good to go.

There are a few performance options, but look what you said. There's an air restrictor. There's not too much you can do to increase power with a restricted motor, only optimize where you want the power, (cams, intake, exhaust, etc)

You need to get sensors on the car too. I'd focus on getting a motor in good running shape before you spend time making it forced induction. Get a good data system, tune your dampers, train your drivers, you can easily get 80hp out of a 20mm air restrictor NA.

As far as something you should be looking into. These sportbike motors are made to have lean with high lateral G forces. Cars obviously don't lean, therefore oil will slosh up against the outside of the motor, instead of staying at the bottom when there is lean angle. What that does is cause oil starvation issues, hence one of the many reasons you see people running dry sump type oiling systems.

tl;dr: 2006+, no mods, get a solid reliable car first.
 

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there is a guy in NJ that has a host of R6 sprint car parts...
http://devoracingproducts.com/

My limited experience is they have different oil pans because of the g forces mentioned above. You have some "cheap" options for exhaust on the 2006+ motors as the OEM 2005 header is a very good design in weight & power delivery. The 2006 has a boatanchor loaded with emissions equipment. Good luck!
 

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there is a guy in NJ that has a host of R6 sprint car parts...
http://devoracingproducts.com/

My limited experience is they have different oil pans because of the g forces mentioned above. You have some "cheap" options for exhaust on the 2006+ motors as the OEM 2005 header is a very good design in weight & power delivery. The 2006 has a boatanchor loaded with emissions equipment. Good luck!
werd. Also, hyper racing sells a lot of stuff for sprint car conversions. Also, if you go with an R6, I would avoid the 06/07 all together as there were a couple sets of bad rod bearings. Unless you plan to actually build the engine, in which case this isnt really an issue. Personally, I would get as new an engine as possible and then just flash the ecu as necessary. The R6 also runs the variable intake, which adds some complexity....
 

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I was in Oakland University's FSAE group, so I'll share some knowledge on motors for you.
First of all, don't worry about forced induction if this is the first time messing with the engine. Get a good NA option going first, dial in the rest of the car, then worry about going FI. A well setup NA car can out perform a poorly setup FI car hands down. The tracks are basically autocross tracks, with only some straights, so the more power won't matter as much as handling.

That said, don't forget about you budget! We always used CBR600FRi engines, because they are cheap! You are going to want to get a few engines just in case. Also helps if you have an engine dyno, then you can just keep an engine on there and swap on your intake / exhaust and mess with tuning. We had a dyno engine, along with about 3 spares. R6 engines are usually more money, so think about that.

As a previous poster stated, bike engines don't starve for oil because they lean over. Car's don't and FSAE cars do pull some G's. A quick solution for this is to put in a baffle plate / custom oil pan. This works very well.

TU Graz runs R6 engines, so you know they are good motors. You can't really go wrong, newer is of course better. You will be running your own ECU, so just make sure the ECU has inputs for all of the engines sensors. Motec or MegaSquirt works well depending on how good your EE's are.

Best of all, have fun! It's a great program to be a part of, and it will help you get a job when you are done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Well if we will choose a 4 cylinder engine we will be needed to redesign the gear and convert the engine to dry sump.
Building a motor dyno is a great idea, It can really help us get the maximum out of the engine/gear/manifolds.
Why not use the stock EFI with power commander? What's the benefit of Motec/MegaSquirt on that?
Thanks
Yogev
 

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The motor is restricted. Also you'll be making your own intake and exhaust, and that effects a lot of engine parameters. I won't go into engine tuning details here, but you'll need a different ignition map, depending where you're injectors are placed, you may need different injection timing. You could probably get away with a power commander for fuel quantity. If you want any more advance features such as traction control, launch control, data logging you'll need a different ECU. The benefit of a standalone ECU such as motec, megasquirt, etc is the fact that EVERYTHING is tunable and you can get data into/out of the ECU. Say you want to plug in an accelerometer for traction control slip modifications, the stock ECU won't do that.

Another side though, not sure how errors on the stock ECU affect performance. FSAE rules dictate a single throttle body, the newer engines all have drive by wire with individual throttle bodies, dual set of injectors, emissions controls, exhaust controls. If you start unplugging stuff it may and probably will hurt the power output of the motor.

It's also almost half way through january. I hope this is for next years car. It's going to be hard to get a car going and not even have a motor picked out yet. Typically those chassis are designed around a motor.
 
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I've done a lot of work with the local universities on their projects. I have a few motors for sale and plenty of advise to go along. If you're close to PA, and interested, send me a PM.
 
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