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I say, Say whaaat!
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After pulling off from first gear I rarely use the clutch! Now I had my first track day and I found out the gearshifts werent too consistant doing that! So I started using the clutch on up shifts but not the down shifts. i got so used to not using the clutch. Now I am trying to get back in the habit of using the clutch on the track. How damaging is not using the clutch ( if everything has been working smooth ) have I done or doing to the bike? Do all you track riders always use your clutch?
 

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upshifts should be cake without using the clutch, just put pressure on the pedal and roll off the throttle a bit. downshift are trickier, i use the clutch still. but the keith code school teaches how do do it with out. i figure if Rossi uses a clutch to down shift so can i :D
 

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UR B-hind Da 8 Ball
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upshifts should be cake without using the clutch, just put pressure on the pedal and roll off the throttle a bit. downshift are trickier, i use the clutch still. but the keith code school teaches how do do it with out. i figure if Rossi uses a clutch to down shift so can i :D
+1
When I was racing, I used to downshift w/o the clutch between turns 8 and 9 at Willow Springs(6th to 4th no brakes) but used the clutch when braking and downshifting (turns 1, 3 & 5) Upshifting rarely required the clutch except when short shifting. Clutchless downshifting gives alot more opportunity for damaged gear dogs than upshifting--timing is crucial. Now that I'm pretty much only on the street, I rarely find a situation where I need the small amount of time savings clutchless shifting gives.

BTW --Rossi uses the clutch to drop 3 or 4 gears entering a turn. Electronics and slipper clutches handle the rest. Plus Rossi does some other things that I WOULDN'T recommend. Ever notice where he looks while turning? Right at his front tire! Yeah, he's that good!!:bow
 

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190rwhp......:eek5
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Are the bottom ends on the older 6's different than the 08's? Cause I cant clutchless downshift. Upshift no problem...Am I missing something here, or is it the Slipper-clutch thats preventing it from doing that?
 

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UR B-hind Da 8 Ball
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Are the bottom ends on the older 6's different than the 08's? Cause I cant clutchless downshift. Upshift no problem...Am I missing something here, or is it the Slipper-clutch thats preventing it from doing that?
No, It's a timing thing, you have to down shift exactly when you "breathe" the throttle. You have to click it at the precise time the transmission isn't loaded by acceleration or deceleration. This is a precise skill that can be really bad when you get it wrong.

I suggest that you shouldn't waste your time and maybe your tranny trying this with a street bike or even a track-day bike. This was a technique I used on racebikes that I usually rebuilt and inspected twice a year at a minimum.
 

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Until the day comes
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I think the main thing you would have to worry about is when your clicking down hard and you get the rear rotating at a different speed then the front and getting to hop or slide going into a turn
 

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190rwhp......:eek5
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Aye...My CR's bottom end doesnt require you to take tension off the bottom end to clutchless downshift, all ya gotta do is merely start stepping down through the gears...within moderation of course. I dont plan on clutchless downshifting on my 6 mainly due to already having it down to where I can do it accurately with the clutch and blipping the throttle to get the motor up to the speed of the corresponding gear with little or no "jarring". Thanks for the advice guys...appreciate it...:toocool:
 

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for the record in your mom it says not to shift without the clutch. So I usually use it but when I am upshifting and on it a little I might not use the clutch.
 

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yeah the clutch is there for a reason... yamaha being notorious for the gears going out, i wouldn't make a big habit out of it, unless moneys not an issue, then i wouldnt worry about it, i'd do it on a track bike but not my road bike honestly
 

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Does it seem to you that it makes a large difference in clutchless downshifts which way you are unloading the drivetrain. If you start from an engine braking condition then blip the throttle and shift as you are closing it again it is a different feel than if you had shifted just as you were opening it.
 

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thread revival... although i'll be the first to applaud you for using the search feature. :)

and despite what SOME say about clutchless downshifts... they're bad for the tranny. even the pros use the clutch for downshifts. period. upshifts are a different story. i'll bang through the gears when under acceleration w/o the clutch just to help keep the acceleration going. but never downshifts.
 

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I'm afraid I just don't see how one could be bad for the tranny and the other not. I think they load the tranny gears the same way right. I expect the reason the pros use the clutch for downshifts is that it is faster that way. Letting off the throttle to upshift is quick but trying to do a clutchless downshift really messes with your deceleration and takes more time to do it smoothly The racers need all the rear wheel traction they can get for brakes.
 

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i'm just passing along the info i've been told (and read) about the subject. yamaha's aren't really known for their "bulletproof trannies" so i'm not gonna take the chance with my bike - even though i can do it VERY smoothly.

after while, there will be a few "track junkies" that'll pop up on the thread and give you a mechanical answer... i still say don't do it. :)

good luck man.
 

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Until the day comes
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you can shift the bike underload by lighting rolling off the throttle, this is what a quick shifter does (cut the spark for a split second) to allow the load to be lightened and then it will slide into the next gear.

You can not do this with a downshift because your are putting more of a load when going down in gears. Like others have stated you can upshift no clutch but always clutch to go down.

Watch a GP race and see how much they feather the clutch going into turns when they down shift. They are smooth with their movements, banging down a gear with no clutch is everything but smooth.
 

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sha shaaa...!
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you can shift the bike underload by lighting rolling off the throttle, this is what a quick shifter does (cut the spark for a split second) to allow the load to be lightened and then it will slide into the next gear.

You can not do this with a downshift because your are putting more of a load when going down in gears. Like others have stated you can upshift no clutch but always clutch to go down.

Watch a GP race and see how much they feather the clutch going into turns when they down shift. They are smooth with their movements, banging down a gear with no clutch is everything but smooth.
when watching motogp, specifically rossi or stoner... (maybe cause they have alot of race camera time) but they tend to "pump" their clutch lightly and repeatedly (like 2-4 times). why is that? im guessing its a pre-load..but what does that do then?
 
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