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Touchdown!
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Discussion Starter #21
What the hell do my lap times at jersey or anywhere else have to do with the subject. Geez. On which bike? It wouldn't matter if they were 26's or 30's. I never said I was on the podium.
Damn, calm down. It ain't that serious. I was just asking. Not really to compare to anyone else's times. I know a few people who ride over there. I remember seeing some really fast guy there on a regular basis when I would go. He was a PRO. I forgot his name though. Might have been Kenny or Bobby.

Btw, not at all afraid to admit that there's no way I can keep up with Ant, or many of he folks that very very routinely ride with us. Not for long. But I do enjoy being out there with them. I've absolutely picked up some time following them at several tracks that benefited me later.
I can imagine. That's how we improve. That's how they improved at some point.



I'm not sure at which point this became a pissing match for some. Remember, it's track days; not racing - at least not yet anyway.
 

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No prob. Here's what I will say. Outside of either sprints or endurance, our typical "A" groups range in lap times at bolt between 28's and 40's on average. An awful lot are in the 30 to 34 range. And a handful are in the mid/high 20's. A fair amount will be in the low 40's. Admittedly it's very very rare that you'll see a lap in the low 20's (like 22's-24's) but every once in a while......
 

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That's exactly why I pushed back on the notion that "fast guys don't do track days". We have a very strong relationship with the race orgs and compliment them - to the extent of partnering with them. We are partnered with YCRS. As a result we get an awful lot of their participation. They have some confidence that they're not going to be taken out by some weekend rookie who's riding over their head. And frankly, the majority of our CR's are current racers.
 

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Yamaha 4 Life
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The org I work for doesn't tolerate that kind of thing, even in the advanced group. Outside of competition there's no reason to force another rider off his line.
Yea, I tend to agree, and it was the hardest thing for me to get used to. TPM only allows inside passes in advanced but they do always add the disclaimer of the "few feet rule" to dissuade stuffing or close combat scenarios.

Naturally, that tends to go out the window when you have a bunch of ego maniacs out there all trying to prove how fast they are :wink:
 

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Mr. HER6
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I mean exactly what I said. You made a statement that is simply not true. It's not a put down. It is simply what it is. There are orgs that racers routinely ride with. Apparently they aren't the ones you ride with. Not good or bad. Just reality. You acknowledge that you work for an org, so maybe there's a touchy spot there. You made blanket statements about all orgs based on your experience in your region and the statement is not accurate. Some orgs even have and sponsor very successful racers. Including MotoAmerica riders (hint).

I absolutely agree that that "stuffing " is unacceptable and shouldn't be tolerated.
Not a touchy spot. But maybe I took your comment the wrong way. It's just my experience with the region, and I've ridden with most of the orgs around here. The TD groups have always had a much different feel. The really fast guys don't seem to come out much. I think it's too aggravating for them to try to get some real practice in with slower riders out there, especially when they have to be much more restrained in their passing.

Ive been to track days out west where it was pointed out in the riders meeting that some very fast riders were present and were segregated in their own group. Then Ive been to some where the "A" group is sold out and those guys just buy a spot in the B group...lol. :D
Their own group? That's service! The pro-level guys that come out here are generally just out to have fun with their friends, not really pushing it. They have always been very courteous to other riders.

Ugh... Our B group is usually the first to fill up, so sometimes guys will sign up for C thinking they can just bump up. We will make them sit out and wait. :laugh
 

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Why yes I don't!!!!!!!!!!
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Their own group? That's service! The pro-level guys that come out here are generally just out to have fun with their friends, not really pushing it. They have always been very courteous to other riders.
Ugh... Our B group is usually the first to fill up, so sometimes guys will sign up for C thinking they can just bump up. We will make them sit out and wait. :laugh
If its a circuit on a the schedule (cough cough laguna)... some may not even use their real names...lol.
Also the racer group got to turn some laps during lunch. ;)
 

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Touchdown!
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Discussion Starter #27
I made a thread a while ago regarding tires, and in that thread, I said 'that' is the level I aspire to ride at.
 

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Reads the rulez
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That's exactly why I pushed back on the notion that "fast guys don't do track days". We have a very strong relationship with the race orgs and compliment them - to the extent of partnering with them. We are partnered with YCRS. As a result we get an awful lot of their participation. They have some confidence that they're not going to be taken out by some weekend rookie who's riding over their head. And frankly, the majority of our CR's are current racers.
Poor Bill. Don't even know who I am. LOL. I'll fill you in at Pitt and you'll have a laugh.

But either way, my point still stands. Ok, so let me be a bit more technical about it. Fast guys don't TYPICALLY do track days. You average track day Advanced group guy isn't that fast and will typically get stomped by a fast Novice racer. You are trying to point out the 1%'ers in the group and that's just not an accurate gauge of the track day rider population.

Anything above 55's at Pitt isn't fast. Anything above 35's isn't fast at T-Bolt.

For the one west coast guy asking, my PB was 31 at Tbolt and 48's at PittRace. I ran 33's--mid 34's for an hour straight at the Jersey endurance. I still don't consider myself fast, because I figure anything I can do can't possibly be that difficult if I'm able to do it. Fast is sub 30's at TBolt and sub 45's at Pitt.

You keep talking about these expert riders that ride in advanced group. I'm one of them, 2017 being my 4th year as a WERA expert. Just because you got white plates doesn't mean you're fast either....me as an example.
 

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I agree that over 55s at Pitt today isn't fast. At least until the chicane goes in. But you don't think there are low 50s being run all the time?? Not by the majority. But my point was that there are fast guys at most every track day. Yup - they're the top of the heap but they're there.

Who the heck are you? And are you going anywhere this weekend?
 

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Discussion Starter #30
When I was at Thunderbolt last year, I was told that the MotoAmerica guys run high 20s low 30s in the rain at Thunderbolt.

There are a few things that I miss about being home back on the East Coast, but one thing that's for sure, no matter where I travel, there seems to to be fast racers everywhere.

I figure I'll keep doing track days until I step up to a pace where I can keep slicks at the optimal temperature, and then try to get my racers license. By that point, I should be able to follow some of the faster guys in Advance - possibly the top 10-20%. That's my mid-term goals.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Another thing. Is there a way to ensure that my level/pace of riding is requiring me to run slicks? How can I tell if my pace is able to keep slicks at the optimal temperature?
 

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If you are turning times that would put you in Advanced, you would benefit from race rubber DOT Race/ Slicks. It’s just going to wear faster. How much per set are you paying for the SP’s? Are you using tire warmers on the SP’s?
 

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I agree with Duder, you will have no problem keeping race tires hot especially with warmers. There are some great non-slick options that are cheaper and last a bit longer than a standard slick. In my opinion the difference between a full slick and a DOT is negligible.

Dunlop GPA & Bridgestone R10/11 are good options and affordable.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
I've found deals where I can grab a set between $325-$400 a set depending on sales and promotions. I typically pay about $20-$35 (hook up vs non hook up) per tire for mounting and balancing off the bike. I'm not sure of track vendor pricing, so I'll inquire when I go back.

I currently do not use warmers, but am actively saving for a set. Typically, I take my first session pretty light to start building heat in my tires for later sessions.

Also, I've heard people talk about GPAs, R10s/R11s, Metzler RRs, and of course Supercorsas. As of now, the V2s haven't let me down. I'm just curious if slicks will help with lap times, stability, confidence, etc.
 

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As the old saying goes, the only way to find the edge is to go past it.

As I said above, you are going fast enough to use slicks, no question. Although I should add to ride in Advanced at my local track you have to be with 15 seconds of the lap record. Which is a big time gap. Slicks are more forgiving and offer more grip at an elevated pace. Not only that, they offer a more consistent and trustworthy feel for the whole session. Just have to pay attention to tire pressure. The down side, they will not last as long as a street tire.

Also, the mental aspect of knowing you are on race rubber vs. street tires is a big thing for me. I would not run in Advanced on street tires, no way. When I first started doing track days, I started on the Bridgestone RS10, which is a very sticky tire that is street legal. I still use it on my dedicated street bike (2016 GSX-S1000) and do occasional track days on it. But the problem with street tires that are trackable, like the SP, is riding in Advanced, they get greasy quickly and do no maintain the same feel throughout the whole session. After about 3-5 laps, they start sliding around a lot and down shifts cause the rear to hop around more and more.

However, if the bike is a dedicated street bike that you track occasionally, slicks makes things more complicated. Not that you cannot ride on the road with slicks, but you just can't ride like you would on the race track with them. For example, I talked to Steve at Dunlop Race Tire Services and he advised me that the GPA is the same compound and construction as the 200/55 and 180/60 slicks, but has siping cut into the tire to make it DOT legal.

Because you are using Pirelli's, the price of slicks will be rather reasonable to you. The 190/55-120/70 set of Dunlop N-tec slicks is $339. The 180/60-120/70 set is $388 (which is bi-directional (you can flip it if you track has more turns one way than the other)). Dunlop race tire services charges $30 for shipping. These are the slicks that MotoAmerica uses. Race Tire Service, DUNLOP RACING TIRES

I have used the Dunlop Slicks a lot and really really like them. I have used the 200/55 & 190/55 on my ZX10R and R1 quite a bit. I have used the 190/55 and 180/60 on my R6 as well. I use the Medium Plus rear and soft front and the front tire literally last forever. I had about 6 track days on the front before i changed it. I would get about 1.5-2 track days from a rear tire. But my closest track has 9 lefts and 4 rights. So I would always wear out the left side of the tire, which is why I love the 180/60 because you can flip it.

I have been looking for slicks that will last long, so I recently tried a set of R10's. So I ordered a set of R10's (which are on closeout now because of the R11) for $320 shipped from stick boy racing (http://stickboyracing.com). They were definitely different and handled well, but I don't think they will last any longer unfortunately. But they do have some R10's left, I just ordered another rear for this coming weekend track day.

The dunlop q4 may make sense for you as well, which are $324 per set.
Q4 ** NEW - Race Tire Service Inc

Also, I use the STG $249 tire warmers.

I could elaborate more, but hopefully some of this helps. @TurboBlew; anything to add?
 

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Mr. HER6
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Nice write-up El Duder. I would just add that the whole race/street tire differences at advanced group pace is dependent on the weather. On cool or cold days when it's cloudy and the track stays cold, a slower advanced rider can have trouble keeping heat in the tire. And street tires like the Q3 can hold up to mid/higher advanced pace the whole session. If it's really cold, I'd rather be on street tires. But that's the exception, generally just for those winter track days.
 

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Touchdown!
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Discussion Starter #40 (Edited)
With everything being said, I think I've found the first set of slicks I want to try.

I'll do some thread searching to see if I indeed need dual temperature or single temperature warmers. Looking forward to getting better as time progresses.
 
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