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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Track Day First Crash. Please critique video!

This is my first crash and of course it had to be a high side lol. Track is NJMP Thunderbolt. Please feel free to critique anything about my body position, line, braking or anything that you see that I could improve on. I know I can carry a little more speed into turn 5(left hander) and brake later there also. I can brake later and harder going into turn 1. Need to keep my upper body down more against the tank and drop that inside elbow and shoulder. I feel like i'm strong through 2, 3a, 3b, 3c and 4. This is an advanced group but these other guys are going pretty slow and they throw me off my line. I do not race and by no means consider myself fast. Just always working to improve anything about my riding. I passed a guy in white the lap before in the same spot where I crashed and tried to pass this guy the same way but just cracked the throttle a little too much at full lean. Lost the rear and when it regained traction it kicked me up off the bike and at that point the front washed out and I went over. After I got off the track I realized that there is really no need to be passing anyone on that part of the track during a track day event. Just stupid on my part. Broke my left wrist and the bike barrel rolled a couple times once it hit the grass.

 

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Broke my left wrist and the bike barrel rolled a couple times once it hit the grass.
How's he bike? :wink: Okay, how's the wrist?

Please feel free to critique anything about my body position, line, braking or anything that you see that I could improve on.
You asked... Others will chime in but just some observations...

"Need to keep my upper body down more against the tank and drop that inside elbow and shoulder."
Rather than "drop" the inside elbow and shoulder, push them into the turn.

"This is an advanced group but these other guys are going pretty slow and they throw me off my line."
Slow down a touch, keep comparing their line to yours, see what you can learn and pick the best places to pass, based on what you see.

"Just always working to improve anything about my riding."
Perfect.

"After I got off the track I realized that there is really no need to be passing anyone on that part of the track during a track day event. Just stupid on my part."
Good observation, good attitude.

You block the view of your hands and upcoming turns with that camera angle but, rather than bounce across the seat from one side to the other, try to pivot around the tank and slide more. It will upset the suspension less.

Also, you get your butt off the seat plenty but try to lead with your face first and the bike will follow.

Have fun.
 

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I'm not an expert on the subject however if you can afford it take a race school sometime. there are many out there. you can get one on one time with an instructor.
you're pretty fast to be honest. if you have stock suspension (I can see the stock fork caps) you may be out riding it.
 

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Re: Track Day First Crash. Please critique video!

This is my first crash and of course it had to be a high side lol. .......... .......... ............. ......... ............... ........... .................. .................. ....................................... passed a guy in white the lap before in the same spot where I crashed and tried to pass this guy the same way but just cracked the throttle a little too much at full lean. Lost the rear and when it regained traction it kicked me up off the bike and at that point the front washed out and I went over. After I got off the track I realized that there is really no need to be passing anyone on that part of the track during a track day event. Just stupid on my part. Broke my left wrist and the bike barrel rolled a couple times once it hit the grass.
Looks like a low-side to me... unless I have high vs low backwards. You leaned over so far that you lost traction.
 

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Re: Track Day First Crash. Please critique video!

Looks like a low-side to me... unless I have high vs low backwards. You leaned over so far that you lost traction.
kind of - it was like a low highside.
watch again, youll see where the bike starts to slide, then grips and kind of flicks him off - high-side but it happened quite low.
 

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Re: Track Day First Crash. Please critique video!

kind of - it was like a low highside.
watch again, youll see where the bike starts to slide, then grips and kind of flicks him off - high-side but it happened quite low.
That's what he said; and by popularly accepted definition it appears the poster is correct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highsider

It's not like he took the corner too fast at too high of an angle and was *thrown* off. He wasn't flicked-off like a high-side, but bucked off; and bucked off on the right side. The low side bucking was a result of momentary losses in traction. A high side to me is someone getting thrown, versus bucked. But obviously that's *just* me LoL... :wink:
 

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Re: Track Day First Crash. Please critique video!

That's what he said; and by popularly accepted definition it appears the poster is correct.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highsider

It's not like he took the corner too fast at too high of an angle and was *thrown* off. He wasn't flicked-off like a high-side, but bucked off; and bucked off on the right side. The low side bucking was a result of momentary losses in traction. A high side to me is someone getting thrown, versus bucked. But obviously that's *just* me LoL... :wink:
a lowside is you simply fall off the side of the bike because it falls out from under you. a highside it exactly what happened in the video albeit, it was a little one.

here are some examples of a lowside. and perfect examples why you should wear proper riding gear, neither of these 2 were going fast at all. probably the speed limit.
 

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a lowside is you simply fall off the side of the bike because it falls out from under you. a highside it exactly what happened in the video albeit, it was a little one.

here are some examples of a lowside. and perfect examples why you should wear proper riding gear, neither of these 2 were going fast at all. probably the speed limit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xbKBpXI72s
~30 second mark crash, looks like he just literally ran into the ground on a high banked turn. No loss of traction at all. Typically you hear about "over steer" in cars LoL Not sure how he managed that one. :grin:



From ride'n the horse to full buck'n bronco in <1 second!
Some time on a mechanical bull might beneficial...
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
How's he bike? :wink: Okay, how's the wrist?


You asked... Others will chime in but just some observations...

"Need to keep my upper body down more against the tank and drop that inside elbow and shoulder."
Rather than "drop" the inside elbow and shoulder, push them into the turn.

"This is an advanced group but these other guys are going pretty slow and they throw me off my line."
Slow down a touch, keep comparing their line to yours, see what you can learn and pick the best places to pass, based on what you see.

"Just always working to improve anything about my riding."
Perfect.

"After I got off the track I realized that there is really no need to be passing anyone on that part of the track during a track day event. Just stupid on my part."
Good observation, good attitude.

You block the view of your hands and upcoming turns with that camera angle but, rather than bounce across the seat from one side to the other, try to pivot around the tank and slide more. It will upset the suspension less.

Also, you get your butt off the seat plenty but try to lead with your face first and the bike will follow.

Have fun.
Bike is torn down pretty much to bare frame and parts waiting to be put on. Wrist is back to 100% and ready to ride come spring... I like how you say "push" elbow and shoulder through the corner that's perfect. Will try to slide from side to side more. Makes perfect sense about upsetting the suspension... Thanks for the suggestions
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
Re: Track Day First Crash. Please critique video!

Looks like a low-side to me... unless I have high vs low backwards. You leaned over so far that you lost traction.
It's definitely not your obvious high side being ejected 6 feet in the air but I definitely didn't low side. I don't know too many low sides where people go over the bars and roll on their head :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm not an expert on the subject however if you can afford it take a race school sometime. there are many out there. you can get one on one time with an instructor.
you're pretty fast to be honest. if you have stock suspension (I can see the stock fork caps) you may be out riding it.
I've thought about going to those schools but i can't see it being worth the money... i'd rather do 5 track days for the same money. The forks were rebuilt with GP suspension internals and are set up quite nice :smile:
 

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I've thought about going to those schools but i can't see it being worth the money... i'd rather do 5 track days for the same money. The forks were rebuilt with GP suspension internals and are set up quite nice :smile:
normally he posts silly stuff... but in this instance he is correct.:wink:

Just looking at your avatar... your foot position is wrong which goes along with @oldbonez said about moving around on the bike. Looks like youre riding with "duck feet". Body position is a by product of speed. First thing would be to square your body up by keeping your chest open.

Also you kept looking behind you on hot pit for whatever reason. You should be looking ahead and focusing on the blend line. Which brings me to the next thing... you slowed your pace sometimes and then ran folks wide other times. A fast rider can pass ANYWHERE on the track.
No hesitation.

Ill refrain from commenting on the track org youre riding with. Advanced is an overstatement :surprise: They pretty much let ANYONE in even if you dont know what an apex is or how to trail brake. :fact Seen it with my own eyes, unfortunately.


As someone that wasted money on "so called" race schools... there are a couple worth the loot. First one is YCRS.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
normally he posts silly stuff... but in this instance he is correct.:wink:

Just looking at your avatar... your foot position is wrong which goes along with @oldbonez said about moving around on the bike. Looks like youre riding with "duck feet". Body position is a by product of speed. First thing would be to square your body up by keeping your chest open.

Also you kept looking behind you on hot pit for whatever reason. You should be looking ahead and focusing on the blend line. Which brings me to the next thing... you slowed your pace sometimes and then ran folks wide other times. A fast rider can pass ANYWHERE on the track.
No hesitation.

Ill refrain from commenting on the track org youre riding with. Advanced is an overstatement :surprise: They pretty much let ANYONE in even if you dont know what an apex is or how to trail brake. :fact Seen it with my own eyes, unfortunately.


As someone that wasted money on "so called" race schools... there are a couple worth the loot. First one is YCRS.
Totally agree with the feet. The picture in my avatar is NJMP lightning from 2017. I was working on my foot position a lot that year. Was trying the have the outside foot peg in the arch of my boot because that gave me a good fit with my leg into the tank. My left foot is always the tricky one to stay on more of the ball of my foot because of shifting. I usually drag my left toe :frown:. I really had to think about this going into every corner. I now seem to have my foot position under control. Chest open, push elbow and shoulder through corner.... Check :wink:

About looking back in hot pit... I don't want to blend with 5 riders going at speed so if I see a group of riders coming down the front straight I will hang back a little and let them go by... I do not consider myself a fast rider. I still need to work on a lot of things. This is why i'll slow down if i approach a rider that is slower but I cannot safely make a pass. I do not want to startle anyone. I don't agree with you where i ran anyone wide or made any aggressive passes. The one person that i shouldn't have passed and i did was the guy in white in the same section i crashed. I shot up the inside of him and looks like he stood the bike up a little. Should never make that pass in a track day. But it is the advanced group and they shouldn't be getting startled at this level but like you said anyone can ride in the advanced group with ACE which i also think is bullshit. I ride in this group because the intermediate group is unsafely slow for me and the closing speeds are just ridiculous. We ran with the black group once and that was awesome because i was able to ride my own line at my speed and the racers just went around me at their leisure. And yes they can pass me ANYWHERE they want to. Awesome to see how much deeper i could actually go into a corner...

Checked out the YCRS school and $2200 is just too much for 2 days right now... Ill consider doing the 1 day for $600 when they go to NJMP. If i had the money for sure I would love to go to these schools and become the best rider i can be. I'll talk to some of the coaches come april and see if i can get some 1on1...

Thanks for your feedback!
 

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It's definitely not your obvious high side being ejected 6 feet in the air but I definitely didn't low side. I don't know too many low sides where people go over the bars and roll on their head :wink:
Ok, so I watched the video several times and while you do go over the bars and roll on your head, it appears to be a low side. If it was a true high side then the bike would have flicked you off and IT would have landed on its left side, but as you see in the video, the bike leans right and then crashes on that same right side. Thats a tricky turn because you approach it already with some lean angle and have to lean the bike over further. Looks to me like you were adding lean angle AND throttle at the same time and simply ran out of traction.

I'm a coach with the California Superbike School and strongly believe that the investment into a reputable riding school will absolutely make you a better, safer and faster rider. Not only that, but it will help give you the tools to help prevent crashes and injuries that end up costing you lots of $$. I took CSS as a student before becoming a riding coach and my race times improved considerably.

At the super bike school one of the most common causes of crashing is the combination of adding lean angle and gas at the same time. When should you be rolling on the gas? What do you need to make sure is completed BEFORE beginning to roll back on the gas?

Glad you are on the mend and you weren't injured any more. Please feel free to ask me any questions about the California Superbike School :) We coach at that track so I know it reasonably well!
 

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Throttle control. It appears you might have been a tad frustrated with traffic. When you came around that last turn it appears you gave too much throttle, based on lean angle, to try and get a jump around the person in front of you. You lost the rear as a result.

I've seen funky body positions and I don't believe this was a result of that.

Edit: Just read Misti's response. I think it's spot on. Also, I hope you heal well.
 
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