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Why is this broken?
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Discussion Starter #1
Sooo I was just dinking around on the MotoGP site looking at stats and started kicking around the idea of what if I had to compete against these guys? I'm 6'0" and 210 at the moment and I'm mulling over what kind of strategy I would have to take to account for the weight difference. What are the pros and the cons of being a heavier rider? What can I do that a lighter rider wouldn't be able to do? What could they do that I can't? How about taller vs. shorter? This hypothetical is not counting the massive disparity in competitive experience between myself and these guys (I have none. but I do have a track day in OMG!)

How do I compete with a lighter rider on a similar class bike to mine? I read a little about the MotoGP teams changing things other than the suspension on their bikes to account for the differences but I wouldn't know what those are (do tell if you know). I'm still at the stage of learning my suspension and tire pressure preferences so modifying for my weight is a long way off, other than setting suspension sag etc.
 

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Start jogging? Cycling? Dieting? Lol, I'm taller and weigh more than you, I feel like It's much easier, cheaper and faster to loose weight than to shed weight off a bike.
 

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Why is this broken?
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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Well, that's a given. I'm already working on shedding weight. The hypothetical I am posing is what if someone said I had to go and race one of the 140-150 pound guys right now at this weight on a similar bike. There's not much weight you can really shed off of a bike IMO. Yes they would probably accelerate faster but I'm asking because I read a short blurb about Rossi and someone else asking for a minimum weight rider+bike in response to whoever it was that was superlight and in turn the article talked about this particular rider being dismissed by critics because they didnt think he would have enough weight to handle the bike. Then that got me to thinking of this hypothetical. Is what I'm asking a little clearer now?

I'm asking what strategy could I take on the track to use my weight to my advantage and turn his lesser weight to a disadvantage? Do I have to be aggressive about getting in front of him and blocking or will I have a better time handling the bike in a certain way than he will?
 

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Tron has corrupted me
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From my understanding of the physics of racing, the extra weight means you can't accelerate as fast. However the height and extra weight means you can put your overall center of mass between you and the bike further into a turn, thus decreasing the lean needed and increasing the speed at which you can take the turn.
 

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Why is this broken?
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Discussion Starter #5
so basically my key would be trying to preserve as much momentum as I can through the turns since I'll be able to theoretically take a turn faster if I use my weight right and try to use that to negate his ability to accelerate in the straights?
 

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pin it to win it
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You can stop faster and your stronger.
 

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Pastor of Muppets
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I don't see any real advantage. I guess the more mass hanging off could equal a little less lean angle but that extra mass is also putting more stress on the tire as well. So basically you could even burn up tires quicker than someone lighter.

Really though, work on being a better rider than the guy you're racing and that's what will put you up front.
 

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Tron has corrupted me
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The way the stress transfers and the way friction operates in the turn the extra weight of your body doesn't add too the stress on the tires, it actually relieves it. Basically you don't have to lean as hard or get as deep into the turn because your overall center of mass is further into the turn, creating a greater centripetal acceleration. Now, the faster you take a turn, the more stress your tires take, but because of your height and weight you won't have to use as much of the side of your tire to achieve the same turn at the same speed.


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iRun
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Think like you're "Bowser" in Mario-Kart... Bump those bitches out of the way. :devils
 

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Make good choices.
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Sooo I was just dinking around on the MotoGP site looking at stats and started kicking around the idea of what if I had to compete against these guys? I'm 6'0" and 210 at the moment and I'm mulling over what kind of strategy I would have to take to account for the weight difference.
You would be at a disadvantage.

What are the pros and the cons of being a heavier rider?
All cons, no pros.

What can I do that a lighter rider wouldn't be able to do?
Accelerate slower.

What could they do that I can't?
Accelerate faster.

How about taller vs. shorter?
Shorter tucks in to the bubble easier, breaks less wind.

How do I compete with a lighter rider on a similar class bike to mine?
All you can hope to do is carry more corner speed. But, if they are equally skilled you will lose when it's time for the horsepower.

I read a little about the MotoGP teams changing things other than the suspension on their bikes to account for the differences but I wouldn't know what those are (do tell if you know).
Probably mostly ergos.

You can stop faster and your stronger.
How do you figure? Heavier things don't normally stop faster than lighter things; you know, Newton's laws and all that.

The way the stress transfers and the way friction operates in the turn the extra weight of your body doesn't add too the stress on the tires, it actually relieves it. Basically you don't have to lean as hard or get as deep into the turn because your overall center of mass is further into the turn, creating a greater centripetal acceleration. Now, the faster you take a turn, the more stress your tires take, but because of your height and weight you won't have to use as much of the side of your tire to achieve the same turn at the same speed.
Smells like :BS
 

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Why yes I don't!!!!!!!!!!
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How do I compete with a lighter rider on a similar class bike to mine? I read a little about the MotoGP teams changing things other than the suspension on their bikes to account for the differences but I wouldn't know what those are (do tell if you know). I'm still at the stage of learning my suspension and tire pressure preferences so modifying for my weight is a long way off, other than setting suspension sag etc.
worry less about what fellas are doing at a world class level and focus more on a local or regional level. If you develop the skill set... size wont matter that much.

Take a look at this fella
http://dunlopracing.com/profiles/tim-bemisderfer/

or this fella...
http://dunlopracing.com/profiles/opie-caylor/

both dont fit the "alien" dna profile but are fast as hell on a national level.
 

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Make good choices.
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worry less about what fellas are doing at a world class level and focus more on a local or regional level. If you develop the skill set... size wont matter that much.

Take a look at this fella
http://dunlopracing.com/profiles/tim-bemisderfer/

or this fella...
http://dunlopracing.com/profiles/opie-caylor/

both dont fit the "alien" dna profile but are fast as hell on a national level.
Agreed. Here's another one, Dan is one of the bigger guys out there and is a very successful club racer, on a 650 no less. http://twfracing.com/dan/index.html

OP, in your hypothetical scenario where you are racing in MotoGP at 210 lbs, you are at a severe disadvantage. But, in the real world where you will be racing, carrying lots of corner speed will negate disadvantage of corner exit drive and straight-line top speed.
 

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Tron has corrupted me
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Tron has corrupted me
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How do you figure? Heavier things don't normally stop faster than lighter things; you know, Newton's laws and all that.
Additionally, the mass of an object does not affect its acceleration if you are maxed in the static friction zone of your contact surface (tires). This is because friction is determined based on the normal force present in the system (A product of the mass of the system) and the acceleration force is caused by a combination of the acceleration and the mass present. Thus, in a system where the contact surface friction is at the highest possible static friction, the mass of the system is irrelevant to its acceleration.
 

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iRun
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The way the stress transfers and the way friction operates in the turn the extra weight of your body doesn't add too the stress on the tires, it actually relieves it. Basically you don't have to lean as hard or get as deep into the turn because your overall center of mass is further into the turn, creating a greater centripetal acceleration. Now, the faster you take a turn, the more stress your tires take, but because of your height and weight you won't have to use as much of the side of your tire to achieve the same turn at the same speed.


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False. All wrong dude... Try again.
 

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Tron has corrupted me
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False. All wrong dude... Try again.
I can diagram the difference the weight makes if you would like me to, but my tutoring rate is $20 an hour. It would probably be around 30 min to diagram it, then any explanation required. Probably about an hour all together. Quite simple really; intro level dynamics and physics.
 

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Meh
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The way the stress transfers and the way friction operates in the turn the extra weight of your body doesn't add too the stress on the tires, it actually relieves it. Basically you don't have to lean as hard or get as deep into the turn because your overall center of mass is further into the turn, creating a greater centripetal acceleration. Now, the faster you take a turn, the more stress your tires take, but because of your height and weight you won't have to use as much of the side of your tire to achieve the same turn at the same speed.


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I am really skeptical that the benefits of having a slightly larger effect on where the center of gravity is will outweigh the effects of having to accelerate less mass.

At extreme lean angles (dragging elbows, fairings, etc.) you also start running out of room to hang off.

If having more weight to move around really got you through a corner faster - we'd see MotoGP guys adding ballast to their leathers. There's a reason why the majority of those guys are like 5'6" and 130 lbs.

It'd be interesting to work out the math to see for sure, but I've got better things to do with my time. :laugh
 

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Meh
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False. All wrong dude... Try again.
I can diagram the difference the weight makes if you would like me to, but my tutoring rate is $20 an hour. It would probably be around 30 min to diagram it, then any explanation required. Probably about an hour all together. Quite simple really; intro level dynamics and physics.
:laugh I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that Steve isn't going to benefit much from any tutoring you have to offer.
 

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Even with all those advantages... at least you can eat whatever you want.

I went down to 150lbs last year, I maintained it for 2 months and then gave up. The body does crazy things at that weight. I pretty much had breakfast at 9am, lunch at 11, second lunch at 1 and another before leaving at 5. Filled with snacks in between every hour.

It's easier to get off the bike, but you REALLY need to get off it for that weight to matter. BUT whatever time I spent on the straightaway would take away any fatigue generated from the lap before. The body just recoups like crazy if you have your metabolism set, it's uncanny.

I'm back to my normal 170 now, so more effort to get off the bike, but don't need as much of "me" over to get it to where I want as I did last year. More room for muscle mass too so fatigue isn't an issue.
 

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iRun
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I can diagram the difference the weight makes if you would like me to, but my tutoring rate is $20 an hour. It would probably be around 30 min to diagram it, then any explanation required. Probably about an hour all together. Quite simple really; intro level dynamics and physics.
I'm a graduate student in structural engineering, broseph. I teach people things for a paycheck, and I sure as hell don't get $20/hour.. And if it takes you 30 minutes to draw up a free body diagram that simple, I don't wanna be "taught" by you anyway. Good try though. ;)

:laugh I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that Steve isn't going to benefit much from any tutoring you have to offer.
:laugh I'm definitely not in the mood for this shit today either. This could get interesting.
 
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