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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hey guys, new here but not to riding or my R6. I bought my bike in 2009 with 9k street miles. I stripped it down, sold the fairings and lights, and transformed it into a track bike. I'm now just over 15k miles (6k track) and was thinking I may be due for an engine rebuild come winter time. I change the oil every other track day with Amsoil full synthetic, changed the plugs and did a valve adj at 12k too along with coolant changes every year. The bike still runs very strong and burns no oil, but I wanted to hear some input from other members on how many miles they went before rebuild or it went "boom"
 

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was just compiling some parts for a future rebuild.
Frequent oil changes & the valves being in spec should be more than enough for long life unless youre running at the pointy end of the field.
Think my bike has about ~2000 race miles on it. (4300 total)
From what Ive been told, the rods are disposable. Cranks are relatively cheap as are OEM pistons/rings. Then gaskets.
So youre looking at $525 for a crank, $100/each for rods, $90/each for pistons/rings.
Then another $150 or so for bearings, gaskets, etc.
OE valves are $85 each x 16 = $1360 then retainers, springs, etc.
Slotted sprockets are $60
Manual tension is $50
Typical reputable builder charges about ~$2200 or so for labor.

Correctly assembled & tuned with a good pipe / fueler /flash / cam timing should make 118-123 on pump.

There are little tricks you can do to bump the hp but what I posted above is a super stock type build. Some tricks may not be legal in SS classes.
I have an extra blown motor to play with so I'm not looking at any downtime.
 

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"The Dude abides .. "
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Good info above^^
all i would add is provided you do the periodic rebuilds with new rings and especially crank bearings, you could get a good # of YEARS of race service from these cranks. A key is not letting these 3rd gen motors idle, and using decent oil. Keeping rpm's up may actually be just as important. As well, warm the bike up in the morning at least 30min before you do a session whenever possible. Don't just let it idle though, blip the throttle a little so it bounces above 4000rpm pretty soon after start up. THis keeps oil pressure up, which is dreadfully low on this motor below 4000rpm.

Rods i would say could be reused for the first REbuild.. as long as the motor doesn't have a ton of hours already. I would replace the rod BOLTS every time though.
Pistons ? if they measure out, i have been doing every other build.
Rings and bearings.. every build.

TI valves. (prepare your anus for maximum violation..) are very expensive as TurboBlue posted above. Exhaust valves if you run oxygenated race gas, take a beating. they get pitted and the coating wears off after a season or so, and then they start to wear and clearances tighten up. I do exhaust every build, Intakes every other.
SPRINGS EVERY TIME. If the retainers are getting the black coating worn off from the spring, replace it.. but can otherwise reuse. Keepers? i reuse once but it's horribly important to instal them right or you will be very sorry.

One thing about doing new valves.. ya need to have the seats cut on the head. I send it to kws motorsports as they have a newan cnc valve cutting machine. It's about a $275 deal to do it, but should be good for a build or 2. Can't keep cutting either, or the valves go up in there too much.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Great info guys, thanks. My motor is 100% stock internally and it sounds the build maybe over due lol.

MELK, I have a 2nd gen - Do they suffer from oil pressure issues upon start up as well? This will be the bikes first rebuild and I was planning on doing just Rings, Hone, Bearings, Seals & Bolts that stretch upon torquing along with pistons if they are out of spec. The bike has never seen race gas, its tuned for just pump 93oct... will it need the valves, springs and headwork too?
 

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"The Dude abides .. "
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Great info guys, thanks. My motor is 100% stock internally and it sounds the build maybe over due lol.

MELK, I have a 2nd gen - Do they suffer from oil pressure issues upon start up as well? This will be the bikes first rebuild and I was planning on doing just Rings, Hone, Bearings, Seals & Bolts that stretch upon torquing along with pistons if they are out of spec. The bike has never seen race gas, its tuned for just pump 93oct... will it need the valves, springs and headwork too?
the 2nd gen is a great motor! and will respond more to a thinner head gasket and cam timing than the 3rd gen.
The valves on the 2nd gen are steel.. not TI, so that is a bonus as far as cost and wear go.. the ti is lighter (thus a higher rev) but cost way more, don't last as long.

Oil psi isn't as much as a problem on the 2nd gen, but i always follow the start up/warming ahead of time procedure outlined above. Even on my dirt bikes.

Get with a noted builder.. they will KNOW some good cam timing numbers that really wake up the 2nd gen motor. You can run a thinner head gasket, but again, the builder with know-how is important to gauge how tight they can go. My 2nd gen race motors had some head milling or cylinder milling.. i don't remember which, but they were really good motors.
 

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Great info guys, thanks. My motor is 100% stock internally and it sounds the build maybe over due lol.

MELK, I have a 2nd gen - Do they suffer from oil pressure issues upon start up as well? This will be the bikes first rebuild and I was planning on doing just Rings, Hone, Bearings, Seals & Bolts that stretch upon torquing along with pistons if they are out of spec. The bike has never seen race gas, its tuned for just pump 93oct... will it need the valves, springs and headwork too?
If you use good oil (insert 10 page debate here) you can start a log with blackstone labs (~$25) and send them your oil change samples. Do some basic diagnosis like a compression & leak down test. If its not too inconvenient, a dyno run that you can put your bike back on at a later date.
You can do all the above for less than $100.
 

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I have roughly 10k miles on my 07, 6k are track miles. Rebuilding or SS builds are expensive, so I think I'm just going to get a newer model next year.

The bike still seems to make good power, but I can't draft past the newer R6s worth a hoot.
 

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I have roughly 10k miles on my 07, 6k are track miles. Rebuilding or SS builds are expensive, so I think I'm just going to get a newer model next year.

The bike still seems to make good power, but I can't draft past the newer R6s worth a hoot.
even factory stock they can vary in power, alot. The biggest thing about SS builds are the cam #s which no builder will give you. ;) So you can buy a degree wheel & the how too video for about $80.
 

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There is no way my dumbass is ever going to build an engine myself. Those guys don't give out the numbers because that is their livelihood. If I ever do it, then it would be done by one of those guys in the Georgia or South Carolina area. Don't see myself ever building anything though. Too much maintenance and money.
 

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i'm with you ^ .. i don't build my own motors. Someone with good mechanical skills, patience, and the right tools could do a decent job. But as you both said, cam timing #'s and other little tricks of the trade are dealt with on a regular basis by good engine builders. There are few i would really trust to do it though. Lots say they know how to build a good race motor, few really do know how. Do your research on a shop. Ensure they have been at it a good long time, and find some racers that have had engines done there.
 

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Funny, I was just thinking about this yesterday, and what the cost would be to send my motor off for a SS build. I could probably buy another used 08 R6 track bike for the price of a good SS build through Hanshaw. I'm sure it's worth it if you have the extra money, but I think I'm content being a few HP down compared to everyone else... just gotta make it up on the brakes. I guess I'm more concerned with having the right setup before extra ponies.

Some day though.... when I'm a millionaire.
 

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Funny, I was just thinking about this yesterday, and what the cost would be to send my motor off for a SS build. I could probably buy another used 08 R6 track bike for the price of a good SS build through Hanshaw. I'm sure it's worth it if you have the extra money, but I think I'm content being a few HP down compared to everyone else... just gotta make it up on the brakes. I guess I'm more concerned with having the right setup before extra ponies.
Some day though.... when I'm a millionaire.
Its not terrible for a SS build. The labor is the labor. Parts aren't terrible considering. It would be tough for me to "trust" someones used bike over what I currently have. Ive seen alot of folks get burned that way.
 

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Its not terrible for a SS build. The labor is the labor. Parts aren't terrible considering. It would be tough for me to "trust" someones used bike over what I currently have. Ive seen alot of folks get burned that way.
Well, there is the upfront cost of the build, and then there are potentially increased maint. costs and fuel costs. I'll stick with the crappy pump gas for now. I've been lucky that I have not had any motor issues but I did get a few false neutrals last weekend at VIR. I think it was just lazy shifting. Also, ran a different oil than usual and I will be switching back to ole faithful.
 

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Well, there is the upfront cost of the build, and then there are potentially increased maint. costs and fuel costs. I'll stick with the crappy pump gas for now. I've been lucky that I have not had any motor issues but I did get a few false neutrals last weekend at VIR. I think it was just lazy shifting. Also, ran a different oil than usual and I will be switching back to ole faithful.
I dont think SS builds are anymore maintenance than an OEM built engine. Running them at the upper end of the RPM range for extended periods of time does tend to wear critical components. I would agree that higher HP/race gas builds might not be the most cost effective for seat time or a club racing bike.
Some builders would not trust an OEM rod past a few races of service.
 

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I dont think SS builds are anymore maintenance than an OEM built engine. Running them at the upper end of the RPM range for extended periods of time does tend to wear critical components. I would agree that higher HP/race gas builds might not be the most cost effective for seat time or a club racing bike.
Some builders would not trust an OEM rod past a few races of service.
I guess it all depends on the build.

Agreed on the seat time, I learn something new every weekend I'm racing.
 

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the 2nd gen r6 motor really woke up with a .45 head gasket and cam timing.. the 3rd gen motor ? not as much increase for whatever reason. Much of the hp and the difference in 2 bikes with the same exact build... is in the tuning. Good mapping/tuning can make all the difference in a bike that is "ho-hum" and really responsive with 3-4 extra hp up top, and good midrange.

For nearly everyone, especially if you have a 3rd gen bike that does not need a rebuild yet.. just put the money into GOOD tuning. Like a reputable race shop that dynos race bikes. not a local dealership that has to clean the cobwebs off the dyno before putting your bike on it.

then if you still have the bike a season or 2 later, and are gonna run a full race season and the motor is gonna come apart anyway to freshen up.. it would almost be silly to not have a builder set the cam timing and install a .45 head gasket (stocker is .60) the tune for the fuel you are gonna run.. chances are they have a good PUMP GAS map too. There is no reason if tuned for it or switch to the right map, that any supersport build can't run on pump gas.
 
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