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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So over the summer I had a few quick racing buddies tell me they've seen significantly fewer problems with their built motors if they prime the motor after oil changes. They pull the plugs and kick it over with the starter.

Coincidence maybe, but I reminded me that this was pretty common back when I built quick car motors.

Anyone else do this? Is there a fuse or wire connection I can pull so I can kick over the starter without firing the motor? There's got to be an easier way than pulling the tank and plugs. Any of the the big brains on the forum have answers? :D

Thx
-D
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Re: Kicking the starter withOUT firing the motor?

Subject line should have read "Re: Kicking the starter withOUT firing the motor?"

So over the summer I had a few quick racing buddies tell me they've seen significantly fewer problems with their built motors if they prime the motor after oil changes. They pull the plugs and kick it over with the starter.

Coincidence maybe, but I reminded me that this was pretty common back when I built quick car motors.

Anyone else do this? Is there a fuse or wire connection I can pull so I can kick over the starter without firing the motor? There's got to be an easier way than pulling the tank and plugs. Any of the the big brains on the forum have answers? :D

Thx
-D
 

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You could pull the plugs off the fuel pump so it doesnt put fuel in.
 

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The priming of the motor you're thinking of requires you to turn the oil pump driveshaft in a car, moving oil to the valve train without actually starting it and causing damage due to lack of lube, but there isn't much difference in what you are describing on the bike and starting it, unless you can drive the oil pump without turning the crank and cams, as they are not properly lubed at this point. I'm interested in what you come up with though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The priming of the motor you're thinking of requires you to turn the oil pump driveshaft in a car, moving oil to the valve train without actually starting it and causing damage due to lack of lube, but there isn't much difference in what you are describing on the bike and starting it, unless you can drive the oil pump without turning the crank and cams, as they are not properly lubed at this point. I'm interested in what you come up with though.
Yeah, exactly. For example on old watercooled VW motors I made a spline tool that fit on a drill. I'd pull the distributor and crank the oil pump for a minute before I fired up a fresh motor.

For the R6, I was aiming at that 5-10 seconds when you fire the motor after an oil change and oil light stays on. It seems like it lasts forever. :eek5

I thought there may be a more simple trick like pulling a fuse ... kick the starter and prime the motor without it firing, so it's not under load. It couldn't hurt.

Anyway, interesting I had several guys mention it to me last summer. I'm going to try a few things and I'll report back.

-D
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
You could pull the plugs off the fuel pump so it doesnt put fuel in.
I believe the starter doesn't trigger when the fuel pump is disconnected, like it's a looped circuit. But I'll have to try again with that one.
 

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Another thing you can do to help get oil to the engine sooner is prefill the oil filter a little bit so it takes less time to fill and start flowing.
 

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easiest way I can think of is pull the conncetor from the cylinder identificaiton sensor, and unplug the fuel pump, hell you might not even have to unplug the fuel pump if you just remove the FI fuse. But if you reach up behind the radiator and pull the connector from the Cylinder identification sensor it will prevent all spark. In all honesty you might only have to pull the cylinder identification sensor but I would still pull the FI fuse and or unplug the fuel pump just to make sure.
 

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Yeah, exactly. For example on old watercooled VW motors I made a spline tool that fit on a drill. I'd pull the distributor and crank the oil pump for a minute before I fired up a fresh motor.

For the R6, I was aiming at that 5-10 seconds when you fire the motor after an oil change and oil light stays on. It seems like it lasts forever. :eek5

I thought there may be a more simple trick like pulling a fuse ... kick the starter and prime the motor without it firing, so it's not under load. It couldn't hurt.

Anyway, interesting I had several guys mention it to me last summer. I'm going to try a few things and I'll report back.

-D
Unless you had a way of doing this same type of thing on the bike there is absolutely no difference in turning the engine over with the fuel or plugs out and just starting the engine.
You are still turning the crank. Which is still turning the cams and the rest of the engine. For that same very few seconds there is still no new oil getting to those parts. It is just making an oil change way more complex.
Your best bet is like has been said just fill or partially fill the oil filter to speed oil circulating to the rest of the engine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
> absolutely no difference in turning the engine over

Maybe, except when spinning the motor with the starter there's no load from combustion. It's just spinning on the bearings.

> partially fill the oil filter

Yeah, that's what I've been doing.

Good discussion, anyway. I figure there's a lot more damage to be done in a lowside with the hot motor running and the bike on it's side. And this is pretty common.

-D


Unless you had a way of doing this same type of thing on the bike there is absolutely no difference in turning the engine over with the fuel or plugs out and just starting the engine.
You are still turning the crank. Which is still turning the cams and the rest of the engine. For that same very few seconds there is still no new oil getting to those parts. It is just making an oil change way more complex.
Your best bet is like has been said just fill or partially fill the oil filter to speed oil circulating to the rest of the engine.
 

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You could always wire a way to start the starter outside of the current system, allowing you to leave the kill switch off... but again, its probably not going to deliver the results you want. The cylinder identification sensor sounds like the best bet so far though. IMO the biggest issue is the oil filter being empty and having to fill.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The cylinder identification sensor sounds like the best bet so far though. IMO the biggest issue is the oil filter being empty and having to fill.
Yeah, I'm going to try it this weekend.
 

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you know, if you could figure out a way to add a small pre-oiler/accumulator, you'd probably make a ton of money selling them. Race teams alone would buy them to save engine wear.... just saying... and it couldnt be that hard to do. Probably not worth it on street bikes, but race bikes where engines are very valuable.......you never know.
 

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Hey Dana, you know if you wanted you could always place a toggle on the CID sensor for when you want to do this. That and if you somewhat hide it you could even use it as theft prevention mod. Just disable the ignition when the bike isn't being used. At least they wouldn't be able to ride off on it unless they know where that switch is and that it needs to be on to allow ignition.
 

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Hey Dana, you know if you wanted you could always place a toggle on the CID sensor for when you want to do this. That and if you somewhat hide it you could even use it as theft prevention mod. Just disable the ignition when the bike isn't being used. At least they wouldn't be able to ride off on it unless they know where that switch is and that it needs to be on to allow ignition.
how many people actually ride off with a bike rather than throw it in a van and bail....???:laugh

You could toggle it, though, yes.
 

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I wouldn't unplug the fuel pump. I can almost guarantee that the engine will still fire and run for a few seconds with the residual fuel in the lines. Pull the ECU fuse. End thread.
 

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Unless you had a way of doing this same type of thing on the bike there is absolutely no difference in turning the engine over with the fuel or plugs out and just starting the engine.
You are still turning the crank. Which is still turning the cams and the rest of the engine. For that same very few seconds there is still no new oil getting to those parts. It is just making an oil change way more complex.
Your best bet is like has been said just fill or partially fill the oil filter to speed oil circulating to the rest of the engine.
When you turn the engine using the starter without it actually running you are turning it at lower RPM's than if it were actually running so it would help a little. the faster a motor turn's without oil the more things bind and wear.
 

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When you turn the engine using the starter without it actually running you are turning it at lower RPM's than if it were actually running so it would help a little. the faster a motor turn's without oil the more things bind and wear.
this is true, but less of a big deal the lesser the state of tune IMO.
 

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yeah I really don't think it is that big of a deal. I was just saying that there is some difference. I personally don't worry about it when I change my oil.
 

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yeah I really don't think it is that big of a deal. I was just saying that there is some difference. I personally don't worry about it when I change my oil.
I dont worry about it either, but I also dont have a high dollar race motor... If I did, id pull the valve cover and dump oil in the top before I fired it up, or come up with a pre-oiler.
 
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