Yamaha R6 Forum: YZF-R6 Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
484 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Still trying to gather what went wrong exactly, or maybe it was a mix of issues, including myself. Came out of hot pit and was going for the pass on the three bikes in front of me who were tip-toeing, otherwise I would have been stuck behind them for a while without a safe pass. When I went for the throttle the rear tire just gave out.

Ended up with a fractured finger/ripped tendon, bruised hip, and a mild concussion. My brother took the warmers off the bike and then I remembered I wanted to make a small clip-on adjustment. So the bike sat in the pits for about 2 minutes without warmers before I set out. I'm thinking my incompetence to not realize that caused the crash and the tires had cooled down. However, the rest of the session was cancelled and apparently there was a clean up team checking out the track. So I'm not sure if there was any debris or an oil slick they were cleaning up.

Was running Power Cups, B compound, about three trackdays on them - outside sips were almost gone entirely but still had grip when warm. Live and learn, always good to double check everything before you go out on track.

I'm also going to check my tire warmer later to see if it maybe burned up. They're DMP digital warmers and my brother said he possibly recalls a low reading before taking them off (around 150 deg on the digital readout). So who knows. Now enjoy the short video and pics...








 

·
Smooth
Joined
·
298 Posts
Ouch sorry to hear man. Hope you heel up quick. I know the feeling, that moment when you're flying in the air right before you hit and you're thinking OHHHHH Fu*k.
 

·
Do you even lean bro?
Joined
·
164 Posts
Looks like the bike got out of it easier than you did.

Glad you walked away without being completely broken.
 

·
Reads the rulez
Joined
·
2,255 Posts
As most know on this forum, morons/stupid people irritate me and I like to fvuck around with them...a lot. But this is one of those (rare) sincere posts by me...

Glad to see you're in one piece. I also had my first "serious" wreck this year. I front flipped the bike trying to avoid a guy who checked up due to apparent debris on track. I couldn't brake any harder, as the rear tire was about a foot off the ground already. I wound up braking even harder, which of course led to the front flip. I woke up in the ambulance on my way to the hospital. I don't remember anything, I only remember gridding up. I don't even remember starting the race. Other than some bumps and bruises, that was it. Just a good, strong concussion. If it wasn't for the gopro, I wouldn't have even known what happened. Getting knocked out in a bike race and waking up on my way to the hospital, just in time to hear the scissors from the EMT's cutting my leathers off...that's when it hit me. This shit's actually real. I wouldn't say I ever felt invincible or anything like that. And I know plenty of people that have gotten messed up. It just never occurred to me that eventually, it's going to happen.

I was also working with the suspension guy on race day and he took a LOT of pre load out of my forks (7 turns), saying that he wasn't comfortable with how much preload I was running. I was simply adjusting preload based off the suspension travel. Bottoming out = add preload. It was set to where I had about 1" of fork travel, before he started adjusting things. After the wreck and looking over the bike, I found my zip tie on the fork was completely bottomed out. It was very soft and continued to bottom out until I put the roughly 7-8 (I forget exactly, but it was a lot) turns of preload back in.

At the end of the day, every choice was mine and I have nobody to blame but myself. But a part of me can't help but think - Would I have crashed if I never adjusted the suspension? Would I have endo'd if the preload was stiffer, allowing me to brake harder before bottoming out the forks? Obviously, if the forks were soft and bottomed out, the only thing to happen next is the endo. I will never be able to prove one way or the other.

I don't mean to steal your thunder from the thread, in fact I just want to add to it, so maybe others can learn from it. Our scenarios have a lot in common, so I'll end with this:

- Come race day, do not make huge adjustments. Actually, I wouldn't make any at all. The bike may not be PERFECTLY set up for that day, but you KNOW that set up...the good, and bad of that setup. Not making changes on race day was one of my rules I kept true to myself. I crashed the day I broke that rule. Are they related? Who knows.

- Everyone has their "system". I know I do. I have friends/family that want to help in the pits when they can. I don't like it, I want to do everything myself. Why? In your case, the tire warmer - I know I would have noticed that. Would my family member notice it? Would they notice if the warmer was completely cold (Indicating a faulty/not plugged in warmer)? Probably not. Family/friends are eager to help. They want to help you get on track as soon as possible. Did those 2 minutes of sitting idle cool the tire enough to cause you to crash? Who knows. Back to my "system" - it's rushed. It has to be. I wait until 3rd call, roll the warmers off and get rolling ASAP. It's planned to be in a hurry, but it's planned that way for a reason.


As stupid as it sounds, if you're looking to push the envelope as much as we are, you can't rely on others to do stuff like that [Make outside changes you are not used to].

You'll pay for it. Like you did, and I did. Thankfully in our cases, it was nothing huge (all things considering).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
484 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As most know on this forum, morons/stupid people irritate me and I like to fvuck around with them...a lot. But this is one of those (rare) sincere posts by me...

Glad to see you're in one piece. I also had my first "serious" wreck this year. I front flipped the bike trying to avoid a guy who checked up due to apparent debris on track. I couldn't brake any harder, as the rear tire was about a foot off the ground already. I wound up braking even harder, which of course led to the front flip. I woke up in the ambulance on my way to the hospital. I don't remember anything, I only remember gridding up. I don't even remember starting the race. Other than some bumps and bruises, that was it. Just a good, strong concussion. If it wasn't for the gopro, I wouldn't have even known what happened. Getting knocked out in a bike race and waking up on my way to the hospital, just in time to hear the scissors from the EMT's cutting my leathers off...that's when it hit me. This shit's actually real. I wouldn't say I ever felt invincible or anything like that. And I know plenty of people that have gotten messed up. It just never occurred to me that eventually, it's going to happen.

I was also working with the suspension guy on race day and he took a LOT of pre load out of my forks (7 turns), saying that he wasn't comfortable with how much preload I was running. I was simply adjusting preload based off the suspension travel. Bottoming out = add preload. It was set to where I had about 1" of fork travel, before he started adjusting things. After the wreck and looking over the bike, I found my zip tie on the fork was completely bottomed out. It was very soft and continued to bottom out until I put the roughly 7-8 (I forget exactly, but it was a lot) turns of preload back in.

At the end of the day, every choice was mine and I have nobody to blame but myself. But a part of me can't help but think - Would I have crashed if I never adjusted the suspension? Would I have endo'd if the preload was stiffer, allowing me to brake harder before bottoming out the forks? Obviously, if the forks were soft and bottomed out, the only thing to happen next is the endo. I will never be able to prove one way or the other.

I don't mean to steal your thunder from the thread, in fact I just want to add to it, so maybe others can learn from it. Our scenarios have a lot in common, so I'll end with this:

- Come race day, do not make huge adjustments. Actually, I wouldn't make any at all. The bike may not be PERFECTLY set up for that day, but you KNOW that set up...the good, and bad of that setup. Not making changes on race day was one of my rules I kept true to myself. I crashed the day I broke that rule. Are they related? Who knows.

- Everyone has their "system". I know I do. I have friends/family that want to help in the pits when they can. I don't like it, I want to do everything myself. Why? In your case, the tire warmer - I know I[/I] would have noticed that. Would my family member notice it? Would they notice if the warmer was completely cold (Indicating a faulty/not plugged in warmer)? Probably not. Family/friends are eager to help. They want to help you get on track as soon as possible. Did those 2 minutes of sitting idle cool the tire enough to cause you to crash? Who knows. Back to my "system" - it's rushed. It has to be. I wait until 3rd call, roll the warmers off and get rolling ASAP. It's planned to be in a hurry, but it's planned that way for a reason.


As stupid as it sounds, if you're looking to push the envelope as much as we are, you can't rely on others to do stuff like that [Make outside changes you are not used to].

You'll pay for it. Like you did, and I did. Thankfully in our cases, it was nothing huge (all things considering).


It's really ironic you say that because that was my issue I was struggling with this season - brake dive. There were two instances in races this year where I almost ended up like you and almost endo crashed because I couldn't get real hard on my brakes to avoid people. I'm a tall but light guy so all my weight is on the rear, little on the front, so sag is usually 'low'. But when I brake hard the front bottoms out.

Before this track day I had added a little more preload, overfilled the forks 40ml (running 5w), and took a click or two off the rebound and compression to compensate the harsh ride. I lowered the forks 5mm to compensate the extra load on the forks since it measured higher with the adjustments. Worked absolutely great and before my crash I ended up getting some of my personal fastest lap times - definitely competitive with the real fast guys out there.

But yeah, I'm lucky to not have blacked out. I remember getting up and just feeling very dizzy, but I rested on the tire wall a second and then waved at the other riders coming by that my bike was in the impact zone. Even at work right now I still feel a bit dazed. And you're right, I'm usually one to notice and double check everything but we had a big group of people helping me and my buddy (who high-sided the next day, too) so we felt taken care of in a way. Same routine though, wait until third call and rush to get everything done. Either way, it's put me back to grips with it all. Ended up getting a refund for my track time and had some great riding before that so I can't complain much.

Thanks again guys, I hope, if anything, this just teaches people you can't be too careful to check things before you head out on track. The bike being relatively undamaged was definitely a plus, too.
 

·
she already got me broke
Joined
·
168 Posts
dude sorry for saying but it looked so cool. first time i see a highside from a bike`s cam point of view. and dammm your left frame slider got fkkkd up!!!!. i hope you and your bike didnt get much damage from it.
 

·
"The Dude abides .. "
Joined
·
4,719 Posts
highside.. not to threadjack, but bottoming out won't get fixed with adding preload. Preload is how ya set the sag, to regulate the area of the stroke you want the forks to work most of the time. oil level is how you regulate bottoming for the most part. Even with 10+ turns of preload in, with say .975 springs where ya normally may run .925, you can still bottom the forks in a hard braking area if you don't have enough oil level.

OP. what tire pressures are you running on your power cups? do you check em when you come in off the track? (hot of track psi) ? Looks/sounds like you just got on the gas while already kind of high in the rpm range, too much lean and gas for the available grip. And 3 track days on a rear is getting your money's worth and then some.. especially with race rubber (softer, wears faster). If the rear was only 150F on the warmer, that would be a little cool to start. Not horrible, but not ideal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
484 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
highside.. not to threadjack, but bottoming out won't get fixed with adding preload. Preload is how ya set the sag, to regulate the area of the stroke you want the forks to work most of the time. oil level is how you regulate bottoming for the most part. Even with 10+ turns of preload in, with say .975 springs where ya normally may run .925, you can still bottom the forks in a hard braking area if you don't have enough oil level.
Very true, in recollection, I actually backed off my preload when I added the oil by about one line. Which is maybe about half a line to where my sag should be for my weight or close to it. I started adding preload to help my braking (read it in a Sport Rider article) and saw that it helped but was running wide out of corners since the front was riding high. Then I lowered the front a little and that seemed to help but, as you said, it was still bottoming out a little bit and didn't want to add any more preload since it just didn't seem right. Any adjustment I made to the rear didn't help and the rear felt great so I didn't want to mess with it.

The fork oil helped a ton though and definitely helped me shave off a few seconds since the bike didn't dip severely as indicated by my zip ties on the forks. Either way, I think I found a comfortable setup until I can check cartridge forks off the wish list. Definitely something people should consider if they have the same problem.
 

·
Reads the rulez
Joined
·
2,255 Posts
Which begs the question why didn't he mention that/want to do that at the track? He had his trailer and set up with him. He was comfortable with letting the forks bottom out, saying the 30 mill cartridges (Ohlins) have a soft bottom to them. I dunno. I don't know shit about suspension (clearly), but I don't think it's "normal" to bottom out your suspension...right?!
 

·
"The Dude abides .. "
Joined
·
4,719 Posts
i like mine a little closer to the bottom than some, but yea.. shouldn't be bottoming. Especially at a track day/am racer pace.

and just to clarify, oil level won't change the damping characteristic (like adding 3 clicks of compression to slow the fork dive), adding oil level will just control the bottoming itself. Adding compression damping can help bottoming too, BUT, you have now affected the feel of the bike everwhere on the track with slower fork damping.. Oil level won't change how it feels anywhere as compression damping is the same, but will help keep forks from totally bottoming out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
484 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Which begs the question why didn't he mention that/want to do that at the track? He had his trailer and set up with him. He was comfortable with letting the forks bottom out, saying the 30 mill cartridges (Ohlins) have a soft bottom to them. I dunno. I don't know shit about suspension (clearly), but I don't think it's "normal" to bottom out your suspension...right?!
It would be like touching an ovary; an accomplishment, but not necessarily what you want to do all the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
484 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
and just to clarify, oil level won't change the damping characteristic (like adding 3 clicks of compression to slow the fork dive), adding oil level will just control the bottoming itself.
Ah, thanks, I was kind of not sure about that; just thought it might be a safe bet at the time when doing the changes.
 

·
Reads the rulez
Joined
·
2,255 Posts
It would be like touching an ovary; an accomplishment, but not necessarily what you want to do all the time.
:bowroll:bowroll:bowroll

Gonna have to update my sig when I get home. :lmao
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
484 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Sooooo pretty certain it was my rear warmer that failed - it's not getting up to temperature. Does anyone know of a distributor that sells DMP warmers separately? Don't want to buy a whole new warmer set if I don't have to.

Oh, and add a few cracked ribs to the damage assessment.
 

·
Reads the rulez
Joined
·
2,255 Posts
Sooooo pretty certain it was my rear warmer that failed - it's not getting up to temperature. Does anyone know of a distributor that sells DMP warmers separately? Don't want to buy a whole new warmer set if I don't have to.

Oh, and add a few cracked ribs to the damage assessment.
Capit tire warmers. Buy them from Rider's Discount. They are awesome.
 

·
When in doubtThrottle out
Joined
·
5,059 Posts
I agree with Melk, looks like an aggressive roll on at that point causing the high side, I've done that once or twice.....damn hospital bills.
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top