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Discussion Starter #1
So I have been to the track all about 5 timesin the past 3 years and don't put as much street times like I used to. Every time it's been the same track, autoclub speedway in Fontana, CA. I know I can improve my track times if I would just balls up and brake a bit later than I do now. I currently let off the gas/start braking about 50 ft before the first set of cones.
For the most part I am nervous abou breaking too hard and getting into an endo. Or going in a turn to "hot" and not slowing down enough.
I am watching a lot of YouTube, http://http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=5-m5gtWxrao this one in particular because it shows the dash and I can get a better feel of how others are taking turns.

Also front and rear brakes? Or just fronts? I am currently using both but letting off the rears before letting off the fronts.
 

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Meh
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I would honestly not worry so much about braking later, as much as braking less. Stay the hell away from the rear brake. If you were using it in conjunction with the front, and the rear wasn't sliding around all over the place, it means you've got PLENTY more front brake to use, just progressively, smoothly squeeze that thing on a little harder.

What kind of times were you running out at Fontucky? I am not fast. Like middle of the B group. Maybe. But I've been there a bunch of times.
 

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i would suggest working with a coach so they can see what your doing and comment based on that. its hard to sit here and say where you should feel comfy braking with out seeing you ride.
YUP. personal interaction will get you further in your progression than a bunch of us e-rossi's. ;)
 

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Don't use the rear brake. If you're not experienced with it, you're going to fishtail. Ask me how I know :laugh

Also I would work on exit speed, then corner speed, and then lastly, entry speed. Working on entry speed seems to be the most difficult and ball requiring.
 

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Don't use the rear brake. If you're not experienced with it, you're going to fishtail. Ask me how I know :laugh

Also I would work on exit speed, then corner speed, and then lastly, entry speed. Working on entry speed seems to be the most difficult and ball requiring.
i feel like you should flip the order in which that is worked on. exit speed is easy and will change once you manage corner speed and entry point. again it falls back to working with an instructor, the quicker you learn how to properly enter a turn and maintain a line through the turn, the better off you will be.

either that or do what ive done and wing it, itll put you on your ass then youll be looking for a coaches advice :laugh
 

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If you haven't already scrap that stock master. It will feel a lot better once you do. I did lines and the same time as well. Later in brake zones got a lot less scary. Throw a Ty wrap around a fork tube and check it after a few sessions as well to make sure you aren't to soft or to hard. Most of the time it's to soft. If there near the bottom you and the bike won't feel good on the brakes. Should have a inch to a inch and half left. Then just work a couple of the harder brake zones a little at a time go 45 feet to the cone etc etc. Any of them have run off that's paved? One of the tracks I go to turn one is after the length of the drag strip plus the burn out boxes and staging and cool down. If you blow the corner in to deep you can abort and go down a escape road. Tip I was giving was to go in there each lap and once it was to deep or something happend take the escape. Yeah blow the corner on purpose. Once I did start getting harder on the brakes. Unleased a monster bike moved around all over the place and rear would come off the ground a lot. Fork springs and new shock help this a ton but it still weaves from time to time.
 

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If you haven't already scrap that stock master. It will feel a lot better once you do. I did lines and the same time as well. Later in brake zones got a lot less scary. Throw a Ty wrap around a fork tube and check it after a few sessions as well to make sure you aren't to soft or to hard. Most of the time it's to soft. If there near the bottom you and the bike won't feel good on the brakes. Should have a inch to a inch and half left. Then just work a couple of the harder brake zones a little at a time go 45 feet to the cone etc etc. Any of them have run off that's paved? One of the tracks I go to turn one is after the length of the drag strip plus the burn out boxes and staging and cool down. If you blow the corner in to deep you can abort and go down a escape road. Tip I was giving was to go in there each lap and once it was to deep or something happend take the escape. Yeah blow the corner on purpose. Once I did start getting harder on the brakes. Unleased a monster bike moved around all over the place and rear would come off the ground a lot. Fork springs and new shock help this a ton but it still weaves from time to time.
ive seen more things that say you should be using all your available fork travel, that seems at an inch and a half there would be much room left to go. :confused: i also dont think switching his MC will be of help to his late braking qualms as it sounds he is lacking confidence and may be new.

im all for recommending new parts and i myself even have an aftermarket MC, but i dont think that helped a ton with the later braking as did experience and working with an instructor. most my problem lied in my line i was taking, once i started working on that i was much better at gauging how deep into a brake zone i could go and even started trail braking. once i started trail braking, the after market MC was nice to have.
 

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If you haven't already scrap that stock master. It will feel a lot better once you do. I did lines and the same time as well. QUOTE]

While The zip tie deal is a good way to see where your at with suspension, I disagree (ish) with the concept of upgrading the MC. Ive ridden the RSC ect and they are nice, but not worth the cash that early. I have front running A group friends running the stock MC.

Fluid>Pads>Lines>MC for my 1 3/4 cents. Good lever control and experience (assuming your fluid/pads arent crap, and have been bled properly) will show improvements. Pick your problem corner (1 at a time) and work on it. Addressing too many improvments in a session will cause overthinking.

+1 on getting a coach, whether a veteran rider or an actual rider coach.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I would honestly not worry so much about braking later, as much as braking less. Stay the hell away from the rear brake. If you were using it in conjunction with the front, and the rear wasn't sliding around all over the place, it means you've got PLENTY more front brake to use, just progressively, smoothly squeeze that thing on a little harder.

What kind of times were you running out at Fontucky? I am not fast. Like middle of the B group. Maybe. But I've been there a bunch of times.

Ok...Less braking that make sense. I am still a novice, been I am running 2:05 at fontucky. Don't go as often as I would like to.

i would suggest working with a coach so they can see what your doing and comment based on that. its hard to sit here and say where you should feel comfy braking with out seeing you ride.
I have taken the novice class before several years back, but it might be something I need to revisit

If you haven't already scrap that stock master. It will feel a lot better once you do. I did lines and the same time as well. Later in brake zones got a lot less scary. Throw a Ty wrap around a fork tube and check it after a few sessions as well to make sure you aren't to soft or to hard. Most of the time it's to soft. If there near the bottom you and the bike won't feel good on the brakes. Should have a inch to a inch and half left. Then just work a couple of the harder brake zones a little at a time go 45 feet to the cone etc etc. Any of them have run off that's paved? One of the tracks I go to turn one is after the length of the drag strip plus the burn out boxes and staging and cool down. If you blow the corner in to deep you can abort and go down a escape road. Tip I was giving was to go in there each lap and once it was to deep or something happend take the escape. Yeah blow the corner on purpose. Once I did start getting harder on the brakes. Unleased a monster bike moved around all over the place and rear would come off the ground a lot. Fork springs and new shock help this a ton but it still weaves from time to time.
Although I agree, I do not think I am at the level where I would benefit from removing the MC. It's more of a confidence thing. I have however, tried taking one corner at a time approach. It seems to have worked out. And yes, Fontana does have a few corners with run off's. Have not tried, it but I guess it can work haha.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
ive seen more things that say you should be using all your available fork travel, that seems at an inch and a half there would be much room left to go. :confused: i also dont think switching his MC will be of help to his late braking qualms as it sounds he is lacking confidence and may be new.

im all for recommending new parts and i myself even have an aftermarket MC, but i dont think that helped a ton with the later braking as did experience and working with an instructor. most my problem lied in my line i was taking, once i started working on that i was much better at gauging how deep into a brake zone i could go and even started trail braking. once i started trail braking, the after market MC was nice to have.
Thats what it is, a confidence thing. I am sure I'm not the first to have this problem, so just wanted to see how you guys tackled it.
 

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Track=Cocaine
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Seat time.

Coaching.

You'll get there.

:cheers
 

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Meh
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Ok...Less braking that make sense. I am still a novice, been I am running 2:05 at fontucky. Don't go as often as I would like to.



I have taken the novice class before several years back, but it might be something I need to revisit



Although I agree, I do not think I am at the level where I would benefit from removing the MC. It's more of a confidence thing. I have however, tried taking one corner at a time approach. It seems to have worked out. And yes, Fontana does have a few corners with run off's. Have not tried, it but I guess it can work haha.
I think I'm gonna be getting out there mid-May. See if you can get signed up! I'm running like 1:53 or 1:54 out there - so not hugely fast, but hopefully I can give you a bit of help. At the very least, we can throw a camera on your bike for a session and you can compare to what I'm doing.

Turn 5 is a great place to work on braking and entry speed. You're coming off a pretty long straight and need to use a fair amount of braking, and there's plenty of paved run-off if you totally biff it. I also really like to push it on turn 1 - but that one is obviously a lot scarier due to the speeds involved and several quick changes in direction, coming down off the banking - etc. When you get it right it makes a huge difference in your lap times though, which is quite satisfying.

Unfortunately Fastrack doesn't really have coaches available for anything but their New Rider School.
 

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Don't confuse late braking with "too late" braking.

Smooth is fast.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I think I'm gonna be getting out there mid-May. See if you can get signed up! I'm running like 1:53 or 1:54 out there - so not hugely fast, but hopefully I can give you a bit of help. At the very least, we can throw a camera on your bike for a session and you can compare to what I'm doing.

Turn 5 is a great place to work on braking and entry speed. You're coming off a pretty long straight and need to use a fair amount of braking, and there's plenty of paved run-off if you totally biff it. I also really like to push it on turn 1 - but that one is obviously a lot scarier due to the speeds involved and several quick changes in direction, coming down off the banking - etc. When you get it right it makes a huge difference in your lap times though, which is quite satisfying.

Unfortunately Fastrack doesn't really have coaches available for anything but their New Rider School.
I will be there for the 18th!!! (if nothing in my schedule changes) I love Fontucky, but honestly haven't had the opportunity of running other tracks because they are just not as convenient distance wise.

I will be running my go pro when I am out there. Turn 5 is the exact corner that I have the most trouble with, but is where I can see the opportunity to improve because of the run off. However, I think T12 is where you really have to get on the brakes because of the back straights.

Don't confuse late braking with "too late" braking.

Smooth is fast.
Agreed.
 

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Meh
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:laugh I have biffed Turn 12 a couple of times and turned it into a surprise track exit.

I'll get signed up for the 18th then. I won a free trackday with them from liking their facebook page. Time to put that sucker to use!
 

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Pobrecitos
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Ok imo the 2nd gen masters suck. The newer r6 I've ridding the stock was forsure better.
Really, I have both and both seem to suffice... The 3rd gens do have bigger rotors, which may be what you are feeling...

I will be there for the 18th!!! (if nothing in my schedule changes) I love Fontucky, but honestly haven't had the opportunity of running other tracks because they are just not as convenient distance wise.

I will be running my go pro when I am out there. Turn 5 is the exact corner that I have the most trouble with, but is where I can see the opportunity to improve because of the run off. However, I think T12 is where you really have to get on the brakes because of the back straights.



Agreed.
In May? I'll be there April 20...Thinking about adding the 19th too..

:laugh I have biffed Turn 12 a couple of times and turned it into a surprise track exit.

I'll get signed up for the 18th then. I won a free trackday with them from liking their facebook page. Time to put that sucker to use!
:laugh...Been there too...
 
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