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Meh
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Yeah, that's right bitches, I'm bringin' it back! All though I'm changing it around, and asking about a topic I don't know any of the answers to, since I've only got the bike sliding a few times and they were pretty minimal, but I'm hoping it'll drum up some good discussion and I'll learn a lot.

So... sliding around at the track-

What are the different ways the bike can slide on the tires?

How do you recognize that it's happening?

When is it good? When is it bad?

How do you maintain control or recover when it happens? For the front tire? For the rear? For both?

How do the tires themselves effect a slide? Street vs. DOT race vs. slicks? Tire pressure?
 

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Parts Pimp
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26,455 Posts
I'll have a stab at what I think..

So... sliding around at the track-

What are the different ways the bike can slide on the tires?
You can have pushing as well as sliding.. Pushing would generally be when you are going too fast, and the lateral forces are more than the lean angle and tires can handle. The bike can push wide and keep pushing and pushing until you have slowed enough to let the tires grip fully.

While the pushing out occurs, if you make throttle changes that result in any weight transfer, you will feel the bike act accordingly. So if you let off throttle a bit hoping to slow down sooner, the front will start to push out faster than the rear. The opposite occurs when you engage the throttle after getting nervous of the front moving more than the rear. :laugh

Now you can get sliding in two ways, one the gas, or off the brakes. On the gas is an obvious one on what's going on. Generally the cause is too much throttle while holding too much lean. This is usually the case with people who are not taking the best lines thru a turn. When the back walks out excessively and corrective action is required, I find that tipping the bike up barely, while easing off the throttle ever so slightly WHILE getting my ass back over the seat is a good way to not get tossed, and to catch the slide quickly.

How do you recognize that it's happening?
Hopefully you feel the bike move before you feel the loss of drive from the back wheel spinning. Generally, I will feel a sensation of the back tire following the front around the turn (on DOT's). If you do get the rear to spin up so much that you lose your drive, hold on, cause that's when the rear shock unloads it's weight, then catches and you highsides.

On street tires, if the tire pressure is a little too high, I will get a floating and gliding feeling from the back in addition to the previously mentioned rear following the front feeling.

When is it good? When is it bad?
If you're hard enough on the drive out and the bike follows the front, you aren't gonna get out much faster than that unless you tip up further and drop your weight down/change BP for more contact patch.

How do you maintain control or recover when it happens? For the front tire? For the rear? For both?
In the previous paragraphs I mention this. For the front, if you're trail braking and you feel the front start to push and then feel a jolting type feeling, then you need to ease off that brake!

How do the tires themselves effect a slide? Street vs. DOT race vs. slicks? Tire pressure?
The rate that a tire loses it's traction during a drive greatly effects the results of a slide. Take those TD slicks for example, they don't drive out as hard as gummy DOT's. The slide is more abrupt, but not so bad that all drive is lost and the rear unloads. On a street tire with a HARD drive, in that same situation, you may not have this result. More or less, (with the same drive/throttle and lean) you're gonna get that unloading of the shock and the back tire is gonna catch hard...

Gotta leave work, so if none of this makes any sense cause I typed it in a hurry, please be easy on me. I will undoubtedly edit this post a handful of times until I am satisfied with it! DISCLAIMER: I do not claim to be any kind of authoritative figure on this topic.
 

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iRun
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:popcorn: subbed.
 

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Pastor of Muppets
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In for this.:popcorn:

I can't provide much first hand experience, I do know from experience and reading TOTW2 that chopping the throttle is always a bad idea. I agree with chief though that standing the bike up a bit (if possible) to get back onto a larger contact patch helps, while modulating throttle input as necesarry.

Is there any way to revive all those pop quiz threads? I've read a few and there is some seriously good info in them.
 

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iRun
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33,319 Posts
In for this.:popcorn:

I can't provide much first hand experience, I do know from experience and reading TOTW2 that chopping the throttle is always a bad idea. I agree with chief though that standing the bike up a bit (if possible) to get back onto a larger contact patch helps, while modulating throttle input as necesarry.

Is there any way to revive all those pop quiz threads? I've read a few and there is some seriously good info in them.

Google them. :fact
 

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iRun
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Premium Member
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Registered
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mind you that is a professional AMA rider who's been at it for quite some time, we really shouldn't go out there and try that first ride out of the gate ;)
 

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pin it to win it
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Knee drags YOU!
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I've got little experience with this, and i'm interested to see further information.


The one time I 'pushed' my front tire, I went a whole gear hotter into the corner then what was normal for me at the time. (ie. Same revs in 3rd instead of 2nd). By the time I realized that I was going much faster then normal it was too late, I was already starting to crank her over.
I stayed off throttle when I probably should have given it some maintenance.

Felt the front push, and the bike go wide a little.

THANK GOD the guy I had pitted beside was letting me try out a set of his warmers (before I had my own). Definitely saved my ass.

I've got no experience on dirtbikes, but I wish I had started on one. The lessons in traction would definitely be helpful!

I did race XC mountain bikes for a few years when I was younger, so I know what the front tire sliding feels like. Although since the speeds we are talking about are so much greater, I imagine handling the slide must be done differently.
 

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iRun
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33,319 Posts
I've got little experience with this, and i'm interested to see further information.


The one time I 'pushed' my front tire, I went a whole gear hotter into the corner then what was normal for me at the time. (ie. Same revs in 3rd instead of 2nd). By the time I realized that I was going much faster then normal it was too late, I was already starting to crank her over.
I stayed off throttle when I probably should have given it some maintenance.

Felt the front push, and the bike go wide a little.

THANK GOD the guy I had pitted beside was letting me try out a set of his warmers (before I had my own). Definitely saved my ass.

I've got no experience on dirtbikes, but I wish I had started on one. The lessons in traction would definitely be helpful!

I did race XC mountain bikes for a few years when I was younger, so I know what the front tire sliding feels like. Although since the speeds we are talking about are so much greater, I imagine handling the slide must be done differently.
Pucker factor of 6.5. :laugh


I did something similar-- track clinic started out in the rain, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna pay for a clinic and NOT hit every session.. So I went out--on DOT tires. Needless to say, they never got up to temp, so about 3 laps into the session I started picking up the pace a little and as I leaned it over into the first left-hander, I felt the front just push a little. Kept rolling, and the next corner was a left-hand sweeper. As I rolled on the throttle out of the apex the rear slid on me a little. After that I waited until it dried more to go out. :laugh
 
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