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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

I have a 2001 R6 track bike and I have a question that I have searched for but can't seem to find a good answer for and was hoping you track guys that also are very technical minded could help. When I go out to ride in a session on the track I feel like it is very important to warm up the bike, not just the tires but also the engine/drivetrain. So for at least 2 laps I take it very easy and very slow yet I continue to see guys fire their bikes up at the pit head right to the start line and hammer the living $hit out of their bike from the get go. Am I being too cautious? How long does it take the engine/drivetrain to warm up? I assuming you need to be "moving" to warm up the tranny and obviously I wouldn't want to do any less than AT LEAST 1 lap to warm up the tires.
 

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I will fire the engine up about a half hour before the first session and get the engine up to temp and turn it off. This allows the engine to heat soak and be completely warm by the time I'm ready to go. Once I do this, I'll turn the bike on at first call and usually it'll be ready to hammer down out of the gate.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I will fire the engine up about a half hour before the first session and get the engine up to temp and turn it off. This allows the engine to heat soak and be completely warm by the time I'm ready to go. Once I do this, I'll turn the bike on at first call and usually it'll be ready to hammer down out of the gate.
Ok, I'm assuming your using tire warmers then correct? For me I'm not so what would you suggest for tires? Also aren't you hammering the tranny in a cold state without at least a lap or 2 to warm it up as well?
 

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Well the engine and transmission share the same oil, so if the oil in the motor is warm then the oil in the transmission is warm too.

Here's some advice about warm up from Eric Dorn of EDR Performance.

Immediately after startup, hold idle to around 2K for the first few moments as oil pressure will be low for those few moments and the higher idle will raise oil psi to within safe pressures.

Heat soak – start it and let it idle till over 190 F degrees then shut it off.

1st Call

Warm it up again to 180-200 F degrees, shut it down. When you get last call for race or practice start it up again should be near 150 F degrees, by the time you get thru pit and to the S/F line on the out lap it should be back up to operating temperature and should be ready to rip.
FEEL THE CLUTCH COVER if its cold but the water temp is warm..its NOT READY...the water has a thermostat/heats much faster!
Also 150water temp is NOT WARM..not even close! HEAT SOAK man...you need to get bike up to even 200* in the am...then shut it off..the water will drop in temp slowly but the cases/engine/oil will continue to warm up and get to correct temp before you head out. Then when you restart for your session, the water jumps up fast due to thermostat and water heats faster than oil..but you already got the oil up to temp.
Here's what I do at a trackday:

Start it up, hold idle up as described above.
Wait for the "LO" on the temp read out to go away. Ride it over to tech and shut it down (it's not warm yet, but leaving it running annoys everybody).
Ride it back to your pit and let it idle until the clutch cover is hot to the touch. My temp usually doesn't get above 180 while idling on a cool morning. Shut it down and go to the riders meeting.
While you are away the water temp is falling but the hot oil is continuing to heat soak everything.
1st call to grid, start it back up. 2nd call to grid, it's fully warm and ready to go.
I hammer it WFO out of the hot pit because remember that hard acceleration and braking is the best way to warm your tires.
 

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Meh
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It's been a little while since I've run street tires at the track now, but this was my approach...

Running modern street tires without warmers, I find it only takes about 1/2 - 3/4 of a lap for the tires to start coming in, provided cold pressures are right, and you're accelerating and braking HARD, but keeping corner speeds down.

So, 1 lap of consciously trying to warm up the tires, but probably takes 2-3 laps before I get into the groove and I'm running my full pace. My brain takes longer to warm up than the tires. :)
 

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"The Dude abides .. "
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Hey guys,

I have a 2001 R6 track bike and I have a question that I have searched for but can't seem to find a good answer for and was hoping you track guys that also are very technical minded could help. When I go out to ride in a session on the track I feel like it is very important to warm up the bike, not just the tires but also the engine/drivetrain. So for at least 2 laps I take it very easy and very slow yet I continue to see guys fire their bikes up at the pit head right to the start line and hammer the living $hit out of their bike from the get go. Am I being too cautious? How long does it take the engine/drivetrain to warm up? I assuming you need to be "moving" to warm up the tranny and obviously I wouldn't want to do any less than AT LEAST 1 lap to warm up the tires.
as most have stated, it is a VERY good idea to warm the engine well before you hit the track.
I if the engine has a good 20-30 min to heat soak as already described, the trans and clutch will all be good and warm. The key is to do it well ahead of time. Just starting the bike stone cold, watching the gauge go from "Lo" to 185F does not mean the entire engine and trans is 185f.. but that just the temp sensor screwed into the cylinder head is reading the passing coolant temp.
I like the idea posted earlier about feeling the clutch cover, but doing it 20-30 min ahead, then warming it up a bit before 3rd call, is a good way to go.

I can't tell you what to do about warmers.. other than GET some. ;)

A) they are not that expensive if you are already doing track days. Get good ones, resale is amazing on them..
B) you avoid wasting a lap or two "warming" them up. You paid a bunch for your track time, going fast is fun. slow is not.
C) less likely to have a cold tire crash (so how much did they cost ??)
D) the tires will work BETTER during the time they are on your bike due to fewer "heat cycles". Putting on warmers, riding, back on warmers, riding, back on warmers.. is like one heat cycle vs. multiple heat cycles. Heat cycles degrade tire performance if done enough times. This is NOT as big a deal on street only tires (or even street/sport tires), as they are a totally different composition of material that is designed for multiple heat cycles. Race rubber works best with fewer heat cycles, or one heat cycle.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thanks everyone, this makes a lot of sense, not sure why I was thinking the trans needed to be moving to warm it up. I'll definitely employ the suggestion of heat soaking well before hand and still take the first lap a little easy then nail it! I'm going to be at Putnam this Saturday with Moto Series, looking forward to it!
 

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I usually run my bike on the rear stand in 4th gear. Even if you let the bike idle... the rpms are around 2k or so. Circulating the oil with a load heats it up faster. I usually feel the engine near the stator (crank level) for adequate operating temp.
Also running it on the rear stand warms your chain as well.
 

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I usually run my bike on the rear stand in 4th gear. Even if you let the bike idle... the rpms are around 2k or so. Circulating the oil with a load heats it up faster. I usually feel the engine near the stator (crank level) for adequate operating temp.
Also running it on the rear stand warms your chain as well.
Try that with tire warmers on.
 

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"The Dude abides .. "
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A rear tire cost $250
A rebuilt engine costs $2500


Takes 2 seconds to remove a rear tire warmer so theres that
there is no practical reason to have to run the engine, in gear, on the rear stand. If it's how you like to do it ? no reason not to, but warming an engine on the stand, in neutral.. with plenty of time for the heat to transfer throughout, will do just fine. Warming up the chain ? never seen a need for that. I suspect about 1/2 way through the first lap the chain has some heat in it.. The short ride to pit out would do about what is similar to clicking the bike into gear and going up to fourth gear. I just see zero reason to risk the bike falling off the stand with the tire rotating, the cooling of the tire, etc. Again, no real reason not to , but a bit "overkill" if ya ask me for track riding.
 

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A rear tire cost $250
A rebuilt engine costs $2500


Takes 2 seconds to remove a rear tire warmer so theres that
Yeah but it takes more than two seconds to let the motor fully warm up while the tire spins in the air for no reason.

Your little comparison of costs is stupid, because you can warm your tires and your motor at the same time by just leaving in neutral like everyone else does. You don't have to choose one over the other.
 

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I usually run my bike on the rear stand in 4th gear. Even if you let the bike idle... the rpms are around 2k or so. Circulating the oil with a load heats it up faster. I usually feel the engine near the stator (crank level) for adequate operating temp.
Also running it on the rear stand warms your chain as well.
There's next to zero "load" on the drivetrain letting the shit run in gear on a stand. That's the most pointless thing I've ever seen. I would ask you WTF you are doing if I ever saw anyone do that at a trackday/race.

Unless I had studs on my tires and I was ice racing in Alaska, I'm never going to spend more than 5 minutes warming up my bike. I spend more than 5 minutes letting the bike run pulling off the warmers, going to pit out, and waiting to get let out on track.

If my 5.9 Cummins in my Dodge that hold 3 GALLONS of oil and a stupid amount of coolant can reach full operating temperature in less than 10 minutes of flat ground trailer towing, there's zero damn reason a 600cc engine needs 30 minutes to warm up.
 

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Wait...You don't just pin the shit in the garage??? :swordfigh:lmao:lmao:lmao

I don't get why some people complain about noise, on a racetrack...I get it, but I don't get it..Meh..

I've actually never thought of this since I don't run warmers ,yet, and slow groups do sighting laps...:lmao :toocool:
There's a huge difference in track noise vs paddock noise.

Don't believe me?

Go find the loudest generator they make, and let that bitch scream all day, and watch how many friends you make.
 

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there is no practical reason to have to run the engine, in gear, on the rear stand. If it's how you like to do it ? no reason not to, but warming an engine on the stand, in neutral.. with plenty of time for the heat to transfer throughout, will do just fine. Warming up the chain ? never seen a need for that. I suspect about 1/2 way through the first lap the chain has some heat in it.. The short ride to pit out would do about what is similar to clicking the bike into gear and going up to fourth gear. I just see zero reason to risk the bike falling off the stand with the tire rotating, the cooling of the tire, etc. Again, no real reason not to , but a bit "overkill" if ya ask me for track riding.
Uh you yourself should know the reason why... OIL PRESSURE. Put the bike in gear on the rear stand and I guarantee I have at least 8-10 more lbs of oil pressure than simply "idling" with no load. Plus the oil is circulating through the whole engine and the transmission warming up.

What kinda shit stands are you using that your bike is coming off from running it? :lmao
 

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Yeah but it takes more than two seconds to let the motor fully warm up while the tire spins in the air for no reason.

Your little comparison of costs is stupid, because you can warm your tires and your motor at the same time by just leaving in neutral like everyone else does. You don't have to choose one over the other.
Feel free to do what you want with YOUR motor. Ill gladly follow your suggestion when you start paying for my motors.


And yes... you can lose a motor not being properly warmed. I know because I did it.
 

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There's next to zero "load" on the drivetrain letting the shit run in gear on a stand. That's the most pointless thing I've ever seen. I would ask you WTF you are doing if I ever saw anyone do that at a trackday/race.

Unless I had studs on my tires and I was ice racing in Alaska, I'm never going to spend more than 5 minutes warming up my bike. I spend more than 5 minutes letting the bike run pulling off the warmers, going to pit out, and waiting to get let out on track.

If my 5.9 Cummins in my Dodge that hold 3 GALLONS of oil and a stupid amount of coolant can reach full operating temperature in less than 10 minutes of flat ground trailer towing, there's zero damn reason a 600cc engine needs 30 minutes to warm up.
Good for you big boy. When you can rebuild your own engines... come talk to me about bringing a motor up to temp. I do what I do for a reason. I dont really give a **** if it looks odd to you. Works for me and I dont have to risk running 0-3 psi of oil pressure just idling.

Im not sure where youre getting your "operating temps" from but I dont run my shit for 30 mins. I also dont run a 5.9 cummins in my bike so if you have factual evidence regarding R6s... please share.
And thanks for confirming my method... since I cant ride around the pits slowly warming the bike Ill let it run on the rear stand.

FYI... It takes my 6.7 liter dodge engine approximately 15 mins to reach operating temp. Of course what the **** do I know... I only built a NA aluminum headed engine that turns 7300 rpm making mid 500s for hp and high 488s for torque.
 
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