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Discussion Starter #1
I'm sure this has been beaten to death but I'm gonna ask anyways. I know that when making turns at higher speeds that push steering is the right technique. Looking as far in to the turn as possible and push the way you want to go. PLus leaning also helps as well.
My questions is this. When turning, is it ok to counter with the other hand and pull the handle bar. So if making a left turn you push the left handle bar but is it ok to slightly pull the right handle bar back?
There have been numerous times when I guess I havn't been pushing hard enough and maybe not looking into the turn that far, that made me almost hit walls and guard rails. I find that if I pull a little bit on the other side I make the turn much much better. Is this lazy? Is it wrong? Can this cause accidents?
Please let me know b/c I'm dying to be more confident when making these turns.
 

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that is correct... so the technical term is counter-steering this only applies to speeds higher than 15kph or around 10mph. So to turn left you push on the left handle bar and vice versa for right hand turns. You can also pull on the right to go left vice versa for that, but i emphasize this next point, and that is you need to LEAN when you are in the turn to help the bike negotiate the turn much better. So for example if you're in a right turn shift your right butt cheek off the seat and go with the flow of the bike, because "just" counter steering won't let you make fast tight turns. I hope this helps
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the info. I will make sure to lean as well. But is it "BAD" or incorrect to pull the handle bars. So if making a left turn, is it bad to pull the right side. It's just b/c I notice that I can make turns much better if I pull the opposite side as well but I just want to make sure that this wont cause the bike to do something wrong.
 

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What tires are you running? Some tires have a better attack angle and will turn easier at higher speeds. If you are going around a fast corner are your wrists supporting your upper body? A lot of new riders do not notice that they are causing the bike to push through the corner because they are putting their weight on the handle bars. Next time you take a long sweeper try seeing if you can get all of your weight off of your handle bars.
 

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the only thing that comes to mind for me is that if you decided to pull instead of push in a fast turn angle your grip is on the opposite side of the bike and it might be harder to control if you had to avoid an obstacle, an example say you are in a fast right angle but your grip is on the left handlebar pulling to initiate the counter steer then you see you might have a problem with pulling it too much since your body wants to lean with the turn so your left arm might be hyper extended instead of bent a bit for extra control.

But in the end its all up to preference but majority will say lean and push, but i can say you can do both but it might be awkward...

you might also want to check your suspension settings and make sure its good for street riding.
 

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The only other thing I'd add is you can push a little bit on your inside peg with your foot, as you get into "cornering form". But I'd leave this little tid bit for the track because it tends to backout your rear tire, and generally you won't be riding hard enough in the streets to warm it up enough to take that and stick.
 

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The way I do it is I start to push into the corner, then lean off the edge which causes my arm on the other side to pull in and tighten up the corner. In a nutshell anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for all the info guys. Seems like the general consensus is that its ok to do it. I guess I'll just keep experimenting to see what works best.
 

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a combination of push and pull is just fine. The reason for pushing is that it seems to add a little bit more control than just pulling. But you can snap the bike over faster if you both push and pull. Your body position can hinder you'r ability to push if you are not positioned correctly. If you are on top of the bars to much the angle in which you'r arm is in relation to the bars will be to awkward to push effectively. The ultimate goal is to be settled and relaxed on the bike so that you can both push and pull at the same time and not be fighting you'r own motion ( pulling or pushing on both bars at the same time ). if you'r body position is good you should be able to manipulate the bars any way you want while at lean. You really shouldn't have to be holding on to the bars at all, even at full lean. this will allow better feel of the road and better finesse of steering inputs.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Good input. I agree when you say that you can snap the bike over quicker if you pull at the same time. I find that when I push and pull I can get the bike in the position that I want and then can concentrate on the lean and push more. Thanks for your input. I feel better about pulling a little now.
 

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I have been taught not to pull as you have less control, less strength and it can also twist your upper body.

Its a bad habbit to get into from a long term point of view, mainly as it is impossible to pull when your in a crouch (if thats where you want to get to)

If you are not leaning off your bike, use the outside peg to give you an anchor point which makes pushing on the inside bar easier.

Its not wrong, as I do it when riding one handed but its not something I would use at speed.

Other then that read twist of the wrist or similar
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for the input. This is the type of info that I'm looking for. Points for it and against. I guess another question is that, have any of you that have taken courses on the track or any in general been taught that it is WRONG to pull at the same time?
 

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From the courses I have taken, the books I have read and all the fast guys and racers I know- all say pushing on the inside bar is how you turn in.

Pushing and pulling feels weird and when you get to a certain speed, you can try and pull in but since your nuts are against the tank, they will get crushed and you will probably run wide due to not being able to steer enough.

However, feel free to figure it out on your own and post up the pro's and con's. Twisting the throttle on left handers is probably a big NO NO which could possibly result from pulling.
 

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I just read something similar to your question in Twist of the Wrist II a few days ago. It was in the "pivot steering" chapter. From what I understood the most important point is that during a turn you keep your weight on the outside peg. On the bars you can apply pressure with push only, or push-pull, whatever works best. Here's a quote from page 87.

"....You might also notice that steering the bike to right is different than steering the bike to the left because of throttle action. You might find yourself both pulling and pushing to go right whereas you'll only need to push for left-handers."

I have to learn this method myself. He said that you can use your seat or your knees as pivot points at first and graduate to using the pegs or peg. Apparently you get more efficient turning power to the bars and also keeping the weight low on the outside peg keeps the bike from wiggling on rippled pavement. I'd get this book if I were you.
 

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The author's last name is "Code". I can't remember his first name. You can locate any book at a book store or online with either the title or the author. Title is "Twist of The Wrist II", the author's last name is Code. It's a great book. My buddy highly recommended that I read the book, and lent it to me. Glad I read it. It's a VERY useful book. The things you learn can keep you riding much safer as well as much faster. Even if you never saw a track it would be useful. Now I have to go out and practice what I read. And it's also time to go get a set of leathers.....for track days next year.
 
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