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Reads the rulez
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All this chat about how terrible T6 is for your bike, and yet no one has shown a documented engine failure because it was running T6.

I literally run T6 in every 4 stroke motor in my house, from the riding lawn mower, to my car, to my generators, to my bikes. I run it as transmission oil in my dirt bike. I don't run it in the crank case, because 2 stroke. ;) I still run the white jug (T4?) in my Dodge with the 5.9, haven't switched because black stone lab results never gave any indication of me needing to change what I'm doing.
 

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All this chat about how terrible T6 is for your bike, and yet no one has shown a documented engine failure because it was running T6.

I literally run T6 in every 4 stroke motor in my house, from the riding lawn mower, to my car, to my generators, to my bikes. I run it as transmission oil in my dirt bike. I don't run it in the crank case, because 2 stroke. ;) I still run the white jug (T4?) in my Dodge with the 5.9, haven't switched because black stone lab results never gave any indication of me needing to change what I'm doing.
And there, exactly, is the problem. Nobody has been talking about "how terrible T6 is for your bike". Simply, that other products may be better. Furthermore, nobody HERE has shown a documented engine failure because it was running T6 - nor would it likely be possible to do so. Unless somebody is running something WAY outside of the spec required for an application, proving an engine failure is the result of oil selection is just about impossible.

I have in fact seen, with my own eyes, differences in the amount of wear that seems to have been consistently the result of different oil composition - but that - just like your personal experience - is simply anecdotal information. I have in fact proven that T6 cannot sustain its properties in at least my car application, as autometer oil temperature gauges don't lie. That being said, this is also anecdotal information - useful for me as that test was about as scientifically conclusive as you could possibly ask for. Frankly, given the fact that I started that day with Rotella when the motor wasn't yet heat sinked, if anything, it should have had an advantage. Yet, just a handful of laps resulted in very high oil temperatures. Draining the oil and replacing it with a full synthetic race oil and going right back out on the track resulted in significantly lower oil temperatures. Fact. Same car. Same engine. Same Track. Same general time of day. Same ambient temperatures. Same Track Temps. Same approximate lap times. Different oil. Different oil temp. Doesn't get much more conclusive than that. And, BTW, I did that specifically because of claims like I'm seeing here.

There are two schools of thought here. One group has not (yet) seen any indication that they're getting premature wear, blow-by, increased oil temperature, insufficient lubrication, etc - while using an oil that is not recommended by the manufacturer. An oil that scientifically, factually, and supported by data has different properties than a full synthetic.

Another group doesn't want to wait to see if they have experienced premature wear, blow-by, increased oil temps, insufficient lubrication, etc - and would prefer to comply with the specified lubricant that engineers, professional race teams, professional builders, state. Me personally? I'm going to pay attention to the professionals that do this for a living, and whos reputation is based solely on the quality of their engine builds - on the track - lap after lap. For me, skimping on oil is really no different than putting on a set of take-offs, and going out to cut a new PR. With well over $20K in the R1, I'm willing to pay a little for insurance that the motor stays healthy. That doesn't mean Rotella is "crap". Or that it's "terrible".
 

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Reads the rulez
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It's more than just here. I haven't heard of an engine failing because of T6. Period.

I'm open to change, I'm not set in my ways. Loved K&N filters until I heard about the stories. Said to myself those guys must be dumb, until I had two faulty ones. Dumped K&N and haven't looked back, no more K&N oil filters for me. I did not wait for K&N to admit they had problems with their filters.

I know MA teams running T6 in their oil, as specified by their motor guy. I suppose they are at a disadvantage as well. They've also gotten on (and won) the podium this year, so they aren't just a fast club racer doing a 1 off event.

I have a combined track mileage record of probably 20k track miles, all on T6. My first track bike, a 636, is still on track. Dude is still running T6 in it. That poor bike must have been crashed 15 times between the 2 of us over the last 8 years. Not an easy life by far, actually I'd argue a much harder life than a pro rider just riding the wheels off a bike. That bike currently has about 30k on it, I sold it with 15k miles on it as a dedicated track bike.
 

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Very very bad logic.

Find me an example of ANY track or race bike that failed factually because of the oil. You won’t. You’re arguing about failure vs not failing. Lots and lots of degrees between them. Like I said, I’ve factually proven that oil does behave differently and that rotella can not hold up as well as some other oils. Not opinion, not conjecture. Pure data driven fact measured in degrees Fahrenheit. If an oil breaks down sooner and heats up more it’s not as good. Period. For that application. I’ll stick with the engineers, and the data.
 

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A clarification. You won’t find examples of failures PROVEN to have been due to rotella, Quaker state, pennzoil or whatever. They fail and the oil “may” have been a factor. Who knows? I won’t chance it.
 

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I’ll stick with the engineers, and the data.

All I ever see is anecdotal evidence. I don't think anyone (at least that I have read) is saying the Rotella T6 is the best oil. I am sure there are plenty of better oils on the market, just not at $21 a gallon. And since I am old, fat, and slow, it is unlikely I will be getting any faster on my R1 or R6, so what has worked for me will likely continue to work for me. The awesome part though is that you can run whatever oil you feel comfortable with. Yamaha suggests YAMALUBE 4, SAE10W30 or SAE20W40, I'll stick with T6.
 

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Very very bad logic.

Find me an example of ANY track or race bike that failed factually because of the oil. You won’t. You’re arguing about failure vs not failing. Lots and lots of degrees between them. Like I said, I’ve factually proven that oil does behave differently and that rotella can not hold up as well as some other oils. Not opinion, not conjecture. Pure data driven fact measured in degrees Fahrenheit. If an oil breaks down sooner and heats up more it’s not as good. Period. For that application. I’ll stick with the engineers, and the data.
You stated in your previous post that your own testing was anecdotal evidence, but now you have factually proven it. So which is it?

Your posts have conflicting arguments in them. First you said you wouldn't find anyone in MA on the podium running it. I told you there are, PM me if you want to keep the teams names out of things.

Now you're comparing an obviously build car engine (making 600+HP) and assume that just because something didn't work in that specific application, it's not going to work in a different application? That doesn't seem very scientific - and yet I'm the one you say is using a wide brush in my reasoning? That argument is like saying "Well, Pirelli car tires suck, so therefore their bike suck as well." How many experiments have you conducted in regards to oil temperatures in bikes?

I will agree in one aspect with you, that it's not scientific of me to say Rotella is awesome. But generally, that comes with consistent good feed back. I wonder how many millions of miles are turned with bikes running Rotella? Surely, if it was just "oh so terrible", there would be SOME kind of pattern. Surely there has to be, because Bill said so. SOMEONE out there would have an engine that wore out prematurely and it would make the rounds on social media.

History of smoking is proven to lung cancer. History of using dip is proven link to gum disease. Because there is a pattern. There is no pattern of engine failures (or premature wearing) in bikes using Rotella. I find it hilarious that you are so set on all of the Rotella users being wrong, yet you have nothing to back up that statement... other than a single car engine. Rotella users have about...I dunno, thousands of people online using it. Check any bike forum.

Like Rich said, none of us have argued that there isn't better oils out there. So let's assume something, let's assume you are right. Let's say it does have accelerated wear. What difference does it make? Obviously the life span of the engine isn't noticeable. In this sport, I think we can all agree the bikes get totaled and parted out long before the engine actually wears out. So who gives a shit if your engine theoretically would only last 75,000 miles instead of a 100k? There is a 99% chance that engine will not see over 30k miles. Who cares?! :confused: I am willing to bet your bike will have less than 15k on it when you go to sell it.

Your bike, run what you want, because America.
 

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I read in wmhjrs post about "insurance" too...lol.
If you have a "stock" motor...you are playing with house money. Also I dont know why a 650 hp engine would boil oil when my buddies 1000+ hp twin turbo stock LS1 engine can keep coolant temps under 200 degrees on the street?? Hes not road racing it but he does 1/2 mile LSR racing where its seen 196mph so far. The turbos and oil are water cooled.
 

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found a little more scientific performance data
astm test 5800 measures % loss at at high temps and high sheering forces. (very important to small engines spinning at high rpm(high heat) with the oil lubing the transmission(high sheer forces)) higher % bad. lower % good
Rotella T6 12.8% loss. test result, Petroleum Quality Institute of America
motul 300v 8.28 % loss
motul 7100 4.57% loss (in link to amsoil tests)

astm D5481 measures how quickly the oil breaks down. low numbers mean low performance(bad) higher numbers mean better performance(good)
important to note tests range for 10w40 is 3.0 to 4.8 and 10w50 is 4.0 to 6.5)
also, rotella only comes in 0w40 and 5w40.
motul 300v= 4.29 (10w40) 4.8 is max
motul 7100=4.88 (10w50) 6.5 is max
Rotella T6 can't find.
if anyone is willing to sit for a few hrs looking please do. I spent 20 mins and gave up.

the link on the other page to the amsoil tests are my resource for the motul oil. however these were done way back in 2009. the formulations for motul may have changed since then. they tested many other brands too. however not rotella.
 

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how much often will i need to change the Rotella T4 compared to the Yamalube oil?. i ride a `99, mostly on streets and some twisties and tds.
 

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Just asking here to save some money. Ive heard Shell Rotella its a decent and reliable engine oil for bikes.
for all its worth, you can buy your oil at a garage sale and as long as its the correct weight for your application, you wont have an oil related failure.
Its been pointed out to me by a fella that builds over 100+ high performance motorcycle engines in a year that the majority of "failures" he saw were from insufficient oil level. Mostly because idiots dont know how to properly check the level or keep the oil pump pickup submerged.
If you wanted to save money... but the walmart or autoparts store house brand. Keep the proper amount in the crankcase and ride the bajesus out of your bike. Change it at a prescribed interval according to usage.
 

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how much often will i need to change the Rotella T4 compared to the Yamalube oil?. i ride a `99, mostly on streets and some twisties and tds.
the best way to do it is send in an oil analysis to Blackstone Labs and request a TBN with the standard analysis.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php

everyone's results may vary on how you use your bike and where it's riden. for example it's recommended to change your oil more often if you live in dusty or rainy areas. rainy areas = water contamination, probably from condensation. dusty area= dirt. how hard the bike gets used. high revs and high heat will break the oil down faster and make it evaporate faster. why the 2 tests I spoke about are 2 important ones. the low oil turdoblew(on his boyfriends face) mentions could also be due to the evaporation loss rate of the oil combined with the engine using oil. some engines just use more oil(google honda 1000rr oil consumption) so keeping an eye on the levels is pretty important. there's also another factor. how neglected the engine is if you bought a used bike. it may make the oil dirtier faster due to more contamination entering the crankcase from the combustion process. everyone's oil change intervals will vary. I've seen some engines turn oil black in 500 miles and other go 3000k before it's dark.
 

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updates: i changed the oil and filter last Saturday. the first thing i noticed from T4 is that has more viscosity than my old engine oil, wich is good (lubricate more). i didnt take my bike for a ride because i need to do carbs and replace both tires so i will keep you updated for any impression.
 

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just thought I'd share one for a comparison. I changed it because it's been in it for a year. apparently, I could have left it in there for another year. I seen gold/silver particles in the oil pan. I cleaned the pan before I used it. it must be clutch dust. however the trans did have a recall that was performed with a motor tear down. could be some of that left behind. nothing showing as engine wear so I'm not worried about it.
 

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Not to insult anyones hobbies or OBSESSIONS, but these types of threads are on every motorcycle and car forum. Bottom line is if you have this much time to worry about engine oil, you need to focus your time to more productive things. Keep the engine oil full and change it regularly and move on with you life. I know it sounds crazy.
 

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Not to insult anyones hobbies or OBSESSIONS, but these types of threads are on every motorcycle and car forum. Bottom line is if you have this much time to worry about engine oil, you need to focus your time to more productive things. Keep the engine oil full and change it regularly and move on with you life. I know it sounds crazy.
I hear ya but the thing is all these modern vehicles are very expensive. And so is the motor oils. New pickup trucks run $50-65k. The price of the average 40 year old home.
People want good oil to protect it. Oil companies will lie about their oil in the form of misleading advertising. Look up mobil vs castrol lawsuit
Sending in for analysis is the scientific way to prove the oil is good and youre getting what you paid for without an engine teardown.
If youre beating the snot out of your motorcycle aka riding like its designed to be ridden it would be wise to protect it with a proper oil. Drive it around commuting and just about any oil should suffice. But look at the rotella report. The report said it thins out too much. Its a 15w40. If it were used in a bike being rode at the track where it spends 90% of the 20 mins at close to redline that oil is a huge risk to run. If these guys would buy a better oil and send the samples off for testing theyd probably find out the oil is still good for more use. Then realize they are spending more or the same on the rotella in the long term than just buying a more expensive more suitable oil that will last longer and provide better protection.

That whole thinning out thing is a red flag in my opinion. Its breaking down under normal temps. And its being used in an engine that produces higher heat than cars and diesel engines typically see on the metal parts because of the high rpms. Motor oils have 2 jobs. Lubrication and cooling. Just something to think about.
 
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