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Discussion Starter #1
I seem to notice that whenever i'm in a corner my rear end seems to feel like its sliding a bit.. i dunno if its the useless dunlop's or the suspension rebound or just my imagination.. If its not the tyres should i try to harden the suspension ? If i do harden it, how does it affect the ride ?
 

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MITICO
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is the sliding occuring entering the corner, mid corner, accelerating out of the corner? I noticed you've got an '08 so I'm not sure where you're at mileage wise (just to get a sense of what conditions your tires are in) but just hit us up with a few more details
 

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Discussion Starter #3
is the sliding occuring entering the corner, mid corner, accelerating out of the corner? I noticed you've got an '08 so I'm not sure where you're at mileage wise (just to get a sense of what conditions your tires are in) but just hit us up with a few more details
it happens during mid-corners. the bike's still new, only 600miles.. maybe the tires are still new ??
 

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crashing aint so bad
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ok now are you on or off the gas at this point. What tire pressure were you running.

Reducing compression in the rear shock will usually add rear end traction, but if it is set to soft the bike will run wide coming out of turns and may bottom out over bumps making for a very nerouse ride. If the rebound is not stiff enough the bike will be very plush and will wallow around on corner entry. If there is to much compression the ride is harsh, rear traction will be reduced on out of corner accelleration, and will cause a tire to overheat ( also reducing traction ). If the rebound is too stiff the ride again will be harsh,the bike will understeer going wide out of corners, the bike will also jutter or jump over bumps mid turn.

If you are off the gas mid turn there is a lot of weight transfer to the front of the bike. If you have to much rebound damping the rear wheel may not follow the road very well and could cause the symptom. If you are on the gas mid turn it could be that there is either to much compression, or there is to little and the suspension is bottoming out.

If the tire pressure is to high the tire will be cold not getting hot enough for optimum traction. And depending on what lap times you are running and the type of tire, you may also be performing beyond the tires ability. We need more specific data to really establish the issue.
 

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Not sure about the dunlops, and since you didn't actually mention which dunlops your on, this may not apply to you, but a lot of people describe the ride on pirelli's as "riding on marshmellows". It could be the same feeling with the dunlops.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
ok now are you on or off the gas at this point. What tire pressure were you running.

Reducing compression in the rear shock will usually add rear end traction, but if it is set to soft the bike will run wide coming out of turns and may bottom out over bumps making for a very nerouse ride. If the rebound is not stiff enough the bike will be very plush and will wallow around on corner entry. If there is to much compression the ride is harsh, rear traction will be reduced on out of corner accelleration, and will cause a tire to overheat ( also reducing traction ). If the rebound is too stiff the ride again will be harsh,the bike will understeer going wide out of corners, the bike will also jutter or jump over bumps mid turn.

If you are off the gas mid turn there is a lot of weight transfer to the front of the bike. If you have to much rebound damping the rear wheel may not follow the road very well and could cause the symptom. If you are on the gas mid turn it could be that there is either to much compression, or there is to little and the suspension is bottoming out.

If the tire pressure is to high the tire will be cold not getting hot enough for optimum traction. And depending on what lap times you are running and the type of tire, you may also be performing beyond the tires ability. We need more specific data to really establish the issue.
thanks a lot for the very detailed explanation.. i do notice that my suspension's a bit soft, riding over humps and bumps.. so, if i do harden the suspension, should i harden the rebound as well ? am i right to say that hardening the suspension it will increase rear end traction ?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Not sure about the dunlops, and since you didn't actually mention which dunlops your on, this may not apply to you, but a lot of people describe the ride on pirelli's as "riding on marshmellows". It could be the same feeling with the dunlops.
i'm on the stock tyres.. dunlop qualifiers.. thought of changing to a michelin pilot 2 but this tyres are still new..
 

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Until the day comes
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There is no reason to change suspension at this point. Not sure about your riding expereince or your weight. But if the tires are new, are they scuffed in? How many miles are on them? What are your pressures at? What is the temp outside?

Im running a factory suspension on the track and im 220lbs, i have no problem with the tire sliding.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
There is no reason to change suspension at this point. Not sure about your riding expereince or your weight. But if the tires are new, are they scuffed in? How many miles are on them? What are your pressures at? What is the temp outside?

Im running a factory suspension on the track and im 220lbs, i have no problem with the tire sliding.
i've been riding for 4-5 yrs now.. the weather here's about 27-30 degrees celsius.. Like i said it's only went bout 600 miles. the presure's bout 320 kpi. the sliding isn't that obvious, but the sensation is there.. it could just be cold tires.. i'm about 147 lbs..
 

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mine is better than yours
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But if the tires are new, are they scuffed in? How many miles are on them?
if those tires arent scuffed in after 600mi...then he was PUSHING the bike for those miles :lmao just messin with ya man

check your form. that could also be a big issue. and as silv said, also check that tire pressure. those two are EASY fixes. the suspension (spl i know!) can get complicated if you dont know exactly what you are doing.
 

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crashing aint so bad
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No. hardening the suspension at least for rear compression will decrease traction. This is to a point of course. You want it stiff enough to not bottom out and not cause the bike to run wide on corner exit, but soft enough that it provides good traction and bump absorption. If it is as soft as you say it is then you either have a tire pressure issue or you are gready on the gas.

I had to switch from 2ct's to something softer because of being able to get the rear to come around on comand, and sometimes when I didn't want it to. I use bt002's now and found a little more control. Tires not really designed for track use will usually yield timid,or unsuspecting results for traction. It will be there then it won't. It is usually found when you are getting to fast for the tire and it's intended purpose or you create bad habits of grabbing goobs of throttle to late in the turn. You should try working on riding form and habits first as earlier mentioned.

The bike is designed in such a way that it always needs you to be on the gas. This not literal though. That is to say that once a direction change is made and the bike is pointed where you want it you should be back on the gas at least a little. The time in which you should be trying to be back on the gas is as soon as possible. This comes from keith code's twist of the wrist. It is very true. If you get on the gas late in the turn you usually try to make up lost time by giving it more gas. This is a no no. If you start getting on the gas a little sooner, say just before or at least by the apex, then it will require less agressive throttle inputs to make up time. You will be accelerating sooner and with more control. Then once it is possible you give the bike all the throttle. Your throttle transition is important too. You should give what is cauld maintenance throttle for a second before really rolling into it. This is where you get on the gas lightly to set the rear tire. Once you have given the initial throttle input and traction is felt then ease the gas on evenly through the remainder of the turn giving more gas as the bike is lifted up from the corner exit. The goal is to do as much gas as can be given as quickly as traction will allow. It takes practice ( lots of it ). Once you start getting to the point where there are problems with the bikes handling that are definative, then you start tweaking the suspension knobs. To do that you must first have riding form that doesn't interfere with the bikes handling. If you chop the throttle mid turn and the front feels like it is goona tuck it is not because of the bike, it is because you made it do it. Where the bike has issues is another important thing. There are four areas. Braking, corner entry, mid corner, and corner exit. Each one will have specific issues related to supension setup, some that correspond to multiple areas, and some that are specific to only one area. What you are looking for is the comprimise between all areas that yield the best results. After that it is a matter of learning to ride around the problems.

I would suggest finding some sites or threads that delve into specific suspension topics and learn as much as you can. You can't fix a problem that you don't understand or recognize. But my first rule is this. Realize that the bike is a perfect machine. It can and will do anything it is told to do. It can do no wrong. It will only do what I tell it to do, nothing more, nothing less. If the bike does wrong, it is because I was wrong and told it to do it. I am the only one to blame.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
No. hardening the suspension at least for rear compression will decrease traction. This is to a point of course. You want it stiff enough to not bottom out and not cause the bike to run wide on corner exit, but soft enough that it provides good traction and bump absorption. If it is as soft as you say it is then you either have a tire pressure issue or you are gready on the gas.

I had to switch from 2ct's to something softer because of being able to get the rear to come around on comand, and sometimes when I didn't want it to. I use bt002's now and found a little more control. Tires not really designed for track use will usually yield timid,or unsuspecting results for traction. It will be there then it won't. It is usually found when you are getting to fast for the tire and it's intended purpose or you create bad habits of grabbing goobs of throttle to late in the turn. You should try working on riding form and habits first as earlier mentioned.

The bike is designed in such a way that it always needs you to be on the gas. This not literal though. That is to say that once a direction change is made and the bike is pointed where you want it you should be back on the gas at least a little. The time in which you should be trying to be back on the gas is as soon as possible. This comes from keith code's twist of the wrist. It is very true. If you get on the gas late in the turn you usually try to make up lost time by giving it more gas. This is a no no. If you start getting on the gas a little sooner, say just before or at least by the apex, then it will require less agressive throttle inputs to make up time. You will be accelerating sooner and with more control. Then once it is possible you give the bike all the throttle. Your throttle transition is important too. You should give what is cauld maintenance throttle for a second before really rolling into it. This is where you get on the gas lightly to set the rear tire. Once you have given the initial throttle input and traction is felt then ease the gas on evenly through the remainder of the turn giving more gas as the bike is lifted up from the corner exit. The goal is to do as much gas as can be given as quickly as traction will allow. It takes practice ( lots of it ). Once you start getting to the point where there are problems with the bikes handling that are definative, then you start tweaking the suspension knobs. To do that you must first have riding form that doesn't interfere with the bikes handling. If you chop the throttle mid turn and the front feels like it is goona tuck it is not because of the bike, it is because you made it do it. Where the bike has issues is another important thing. There are four areas. Braking, corner entry, mid corner, and corner exit. Each one will have specific issues related to supension setup, some that correspond to multiple areas, and some that are specific to only one area. What you are looking for is the comprimise between all areas that yield the best results. After that it is a matter of learning to ride around the problems.

I would suggest finding some sites or threads that delve into specific suspension topics and learn as much as you can. You can't fix a problem that you don't understand or recognize. But my first rule is this. Realize that the bike is a perfect machine. It can and will do anything it is told to do. It can do no wrong. It will only do what I tell it to do, nothing more, nothing less. If the bike does wrong, it is because I was wrong and told it to do it. I am the only one to blame.
hey thanks man.. you're a great help.. all your answers are in a vey detailed manner.. i'll read up on wat u said man..
 

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Discussion Starter #13
if those tires arent scuffed in after 600mi...then he was PUSHING the bike for those miles :lmao just messin with ya man

check your form. that could also be a big issue. and as silv said, also check that tire pressure. those two are EASY fixes. the suspension (spl i know!) can get complicated if you dont know exactly what you are doing.
hahaha.. no prob.. that was actually funny.. wats the optimal tyre pressure ?
 

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Until the day comes
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if those tires arent scuffed in after 600mi...then he was PUSHING the bike for those miles :lmao just messin with ya man

check your form. that could also be a big issue. and as silv said, also check that tire pressure. those two are EASY fixes. the suspension (spl i know!) can get complicated if you dont know exactly what you are doing.
ha ha thats me not paying attention :D
 
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