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Knee dragger in training.
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548 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This was my second ever track day event.


From the HD GoPro. This one was one of the best sessions I got in. I had another session that was really good on film but about 20 seconds into the lap camera moved due to wind and all I got was the sky... I guess I was going too fast for it lol :toocool:


From the SD GoPro, another view of a good session. I started cooking from about the middle to the end of this clip as I was getting towed along by a CR.

The Patriot course is a short 1.1 mile lap.

 

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NCSportbikes.com
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701 Posts
Nope, I had to work on Monday unfortunately. I play on staying for Patriot and Full next year if they do it again.
full was AMAZING, B group sucked yesterday though... had a ton of people doing like 20 in the turns and not breaking 100 on the straights. it was frustrating as hell, but well worth the wait for the afternoon sessions when they started leaving!

was patriot good? i want to do it really bad, but it looks like it would be killer on the thighs!
 

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Knee dragger in training.
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548 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
full was AMAZING, B group sucked yesterday though... had a ton of people doing like 20 in the turns and not breaking 100 on the straights. it was frustrating as hell, but well worth the wait for the afternoon sessions when they started leaving!

was patriot good? i want to do it really bad, but it looks like it would be killer on the thighs!
Yeah there were quite a few people holding up the flow of things in every session. 3 people crashed out in the first session of the morning in B group @ Patriot. All 3 people crashed in the in the same spot and then they red flagged the session. In the second session I had a guy a few bikes in front of me get pushed to the outside of a braking zone before a sharp right. I thought he would just ride it out then get back out when it was safe to. He decided to grab a handful of front brake and went tumbling.

Patriot was a blast but was very tiring all over. There's no real straight to relax on, you are pretty much constantly moving if you watch my video you will see. I hear Full is sick nasty fun though, a few guys i met Sunday were staying for full on Monday, they were saying I should stay for full if they had an opening.
 

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NCSportbikes.com
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i think we had 3 red flags in the morning too (one session ender right before lunch) and only one in the afternoon. A group had one in the first 5 minutes of their first session that ended the guys day :(

yeah i watched the first one, and it looked like a ton of fun! glad you enjoyed it man! shoot me a PM next time you're gonna run VIR
 

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crashing aint so bad
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2,271 Posts
From what I see you are doing great. Really well for a second track day. I would work on one thing. And I see this as being a very important thing. BRAKING!!!!!!!!

If you watch your second video that faces back at you, the disturbing evidence comes to light. You are doing what is called " COMFORT BRAKING " . This is where you brake when you don't need to, or when you modulate the brakes several times needlessly. If you watch the video you will even see that you will apply the brakes let go and then re-apply again seconds later for the same turn. This is not good for the bikes stability at all. Braking like this does two things:

1. It upsets the bikes suspension.

2. It takes attention away from other things.

The mentality of comfort braking is this:

I feel I'm going too fast, so I will slow down just enough to be comfortable. I know I will be braking more later for this turn but right now I'm not comfortable.

You can see how this can build some bad habits. First is teaches you to use the brakes in little spurts and second it teaches you to go faster than your are comfortable with. Basically if you were going too fast to begin with, you should have just not accelerated that much at all and done all the braking later.

Braking takes a lot of attention. You are doing many things all at once. You are slowing down, setting up body position for the turn, beginning to turn and judging the speed you want to go through that turn. If done correctly anyway you will do all of those things while still on the brakes. Now imagine doing all of that and now you are on the brakes, then off the brakes and back on the brakes again. You just added 2-3 things or more to the to do list. On, off, oops to fast still, on, off again. Instead of just on, off. In the meantime your attention is spent worrying about brakes and not about the track ahead.

Try working on this exercise while riding your normal rides. You are ONLY GOING TO USE THE FRONT BRAKE FOR THIS EXERCISE. First I want you to not go as fast between turns as you normally would. As you to come up to the turn, pick a braking marker that you know is a safe distance from the turn to start slowing down. The important part is to pick a braking marker. It can be anything, a tree, a paint spot, a pot hole, or whatever. As you are coming up to the turn look far ahead and pick that braking marker. When you get to the braking marker start slowing down and do not let off the front brake or modulate it in any way unless it's to squeeze it harder. Do not let off the front brake until you have slowed down to the speed you want to go. Do not worry about how far from the turn you may be. Get to the desired speed. We are learning to pick a speed with one braking action.

You should be going slower than normal in order to ease anxiety. You should be looking far ahead to pick a braking marker as early as possible. You should use the same marker every time for this exercise. When you get to the marker you should brake as much as is needed to slow you down to the speed you desire. The goal is to not modulate the brake on and off and on and off again. You squeeze it and hold that pressure until at the desired speed. If the desired speed is not going to be reached fast enough with the current pressure, then squeeze the brake some more. We are learning how much brake pressure is needed to slow the bike down in the time we want to and to the speed which we desire. If done correctly you should find that the bike will be at the speed you want well before the turn. Or that you could have applied more pressure to the front brake and reached the desired speed sooner. What each of those means is that you could have done one of two things.

1. You could have gone faster up to the turn before slowing down.

2. You could have waited longer to start braking.

Do that exercise until you can slow the bike down to the desired speed as quick as realistically and reasonably possible. Once you are proficient at slowing the bike down in that fashion. It is time to work on the second part of the exercise.

For the second exercise do this. You know now that you can slow the bike down at that speed in this amount of time. Now lets work on using more speed. Bring your riding pace back up to where you normally would be and pick a braking marker that is further away from the turn than your original one. Now that you are going faster you will need more distance to slow down. And then basically repeat the process from the first exercise. once proficient in that it will be time for exercise three.

Exercise three is the easiest and most difficult to do at the same time. Going back to exercise 1, you will slow back down again and you will now pick a braking marker that is closer to the turn than before. We are working on slowing the bike down in a shorter amount of time in this exercise. As you get more proficient start bringing the speed up using the same late braking marker. You want to start slow and build up. When you get proficient at this exercise you will be able to brake much later and going at a higher speed. You will modulate the brakes less and with less thought or doubt than ever before. The third exercise is best left to be done at the track.

Watch my video and you will see what I mean about using only one brake action. I only used the front brake in this video and you will notice that I do not apply let off and then re-apply:


Doing these exercises will make you much faster than before without actually going any faster than you ever did before. What you are doing is condensing your braking down into one action that is closer to the turn and in a shorter amount of time. Have fun and be safe.....
 

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190rwhp......:eek5
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Lukes posts are like candy to me...love it when you post bro :cheers

OP, looks like a blast....Ill have my first track day here soon.....hopefully...
 

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I can't wait to get to VIR just did the Shennandoah circuit at Summit this past saturday. It was my second track day ever and got bumped to intermediate. The first time I ever did track was at the same Shennandoah circuit in the beginner and at the end of the day I wasn't even tired. After finishing the day on saturday my thighs were killing me and couldn't even walk up or down the stairs the next day. 22 turns in 3. something miles. If you get a chance you should check out that circuit.
 

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NCSportbikes.com
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I can't wait to get to VIR just did the Shennandoah circuit at Summit this past saturday. It was my second track day ever and got bumped to intermediate. The first time I ever did track was at the same Shennandoah circuit in the beginner and at the end of the day I wasn't even tired. After finishing the day on saturday my thighs were killing me and couldn't even walk up or down the stairs the next day. 22 turns in 3. something miles. If you get a chance you should check out that circuit.
I heard it's a pretty narrow track any truth in this?
 

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hey DYI01 where in Ellicot City do you live. We should get together and go riding or even go to trackday event. I'm in the silver spring area but go to school in UMBC
 

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I heard it's a pretty narrow track any truth in this?
No not really, from looking at the vids of VIR it's looks about the same if not slighly wider, I have some vids that my cousin recorded, I'll post them up as soon as I can. It gets alot of bad rap from people that have never ridden it because of the concrete barriers but those barriers are only on the straight, the barriers on the turn are cushioned with tires behind them, you should chcek it out if you ever get a chance.
 

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Here is a vid of my trackday at Shenandoah Circuit, I'm in the second group of riders that go by behind the rider with the red suit. After the session the guy in the red suit in the Gixxer asked what I had on my bike becasue I blew right by him on the straight, you can see it at the end of the vid. He didn't believe it was a stock bike.


 

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Knee dragger in training.
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548 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
@ Luke Great info and feedback Luke. This gives me some drills to work on next season while on track. I did notice how much I was checking my speed before corners after watching the video. It's funny how you will unconsciously do something and not even know you are doing it. Although to be fair for a lot of laps I was coming in hot on MUCH slower moving traffic, remember this was B group with a lot of first time track riders on at the same time. Not that I am saying I'm experienced, which I am not. The passing rules in B group are very conservative, only being able to pass while the bike in front of you is vertical w/no lean.

@ KingEdward My Rents live in Turf valley off of rt.40, close to 70. I just bought a townhouse in Halethorpe which is right next to UMBC. I am still currently living with the rents while I do some renovations to the townhouse before I move in though. I did my first trackday at Summit Main about a little more than a month ago and had a blast. I want to try Jefferson and Shenandoah eventually along with all of the VIR courses.
 

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Yuppie Goldberg
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I can't wait to get to VIR just did the Shennandoah circuit at Summit this past saturday. It was my second track day ever and got bumped to intermediate. The first time I ever did track was at the same Shennandoah circuit in the beginner and at the end of the day I wasn't even tired. After finishing the day on saturday my thighs were killing me and couldn't even walk up or down the stairs the next day. 22 turns in 3. something miles. If you get a chance you should check out that circuit.
I think I saw you getting your suspension done. I was pitted across from the dude.
 

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I think I saw you getting your suspension done. I was pitted across from the dude.
I should have posted that I was going, it would have been cool to meet a fellow member. I can't tell from the pic are you the one with the 07 R6 with the 5 Continents helmet. Were you the one that low sided the 2nd to last turn before the straight away? I was right behind you if that was you that went down.
 

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Premium Member
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From what I see you are doing great. Really well for a second track day. I would work on one thing. And I see this as being a very important thing. BRAKING!!!!!!!!

If you watch your second video that faces back at you, the disturbing evidence comes to light. You are doing what is called " COMFORT BRAKING " . This is where you brake when you don't need to, or when you modulate the brakes several times needlessly. If you watch the video you will even see that you will apply the brakes let go and then re-apply again seconds later for the same turn. This is not good for the bikes stability at all. Braking like this does two things:

1. It upsets the bikes suspension.

2. It takes attention away from other things.

The mentality of comfort braking is this:

I feel I'm going too fast, so I will slow down just enough to be comfortable. I know I will be braking more later for this turn but right now I'm not comfortable.

You can see how this can build some bad habits. First is teaches you to use the brakes in little spurts and second it teaches you to go faster than your are comfortable with. Basically if you were going too fast to begin with, you should have just not accelerated that much at all and done all the braking later.

Braking takes a lot of attention. You are doing many things all at once. You are slowing down, setting up body position for the turn, beginning to turn and judging the speed you want to go through that turn. If done correctly anyway you will do all of those things while still on the brakes. Now imagine doing all of that and now you are on the brakes, then off the brakes and back on the brakes again. You just added 2-3 things or more to the to do list. On, off, oops to fast still, on, off again. Instead of just on, off. In the meantime your attention is spent worrying about brakes and not about the track ahead.

Try working on this exercise while riding your normal rides. You are ONLY GOING TO USE THE FRONT BRAKE FOR THIS EXERCISE. First I want you to not go as fast between turns as you normally would. As you to come up to the turn, pick a braking marker that you know is a safe distance from the turn to start slowing down. The important part is to pick a braking marker. It can be anything, a tree, a paint spot, a pot hole, or whatever. As you are coming up to the turn look far ahead and pick that braking marker. When you get to the braking marker start slowing down and do not let off the front brake or modulate it in any way unless it's to squeeze it harder. Do not let off the front brake until you have slowed down to the speed you want to go. Do not worry about how far from the turn you may be. Get to the desired speed. We are learning to pick a speed with one braking action.

You should be going slower than normal in order to ease anxiety. You should be looking far ahead to pick a braking marker as early as possible. You should use the same marker every time for this exercise. When you get to the marker you should brake as much as is needed to slow you down to the speed you desire. The goal is to not modulate the brake on and off and on and off again. You squeeze it and hold that pressure until at the desired speed. If the desired speed is not going to be reached fast enough with the current pressure, then squeeze the brake some more. We are learning how much brake pressure is needed to slow the bike down in the time we want to and to the speed which we desire. If done correctly you should find that the bike will be at the speed you want well before the turn. Or that you could have applied more pressure to the front brake and reached the desired speed sooner. What each of those means is that you could have done one of two things.

1. You could have gone faster up to the turn before slowing down.

2. You could have waited longer to start braking.

Do that exercise until you can slow the bike down to the desired speed as quick as realistically and reasonably possible. Once you are proficient at slowing the bike down in that fashion. It is time to work on the second part of the exercise.

For the second exercise do this. You know now that you can slow the bike down at that speed in this amount of time. Now lets work on using more speed. Bring your riding pace back up to where you normally would be and pick a braking marker that is further away from the turn than your original one. Now that you are going faster you will need more distance to slow down. And then basically repeat the process from the first exercise. once proficient in that it will be time for exercise three.

Exercise three is the easiest and most difficult to do at the same time. Going back to exercise 1, you will slow back down again and you will now pick a braking marker that is closer to the turn than before. We are working on slowing the bike down in a shorter amount of time in this exercise. As you get more proficient start bringing the speed up using the same late braking marker. You want to start slow and build up. When you get proficient at this exercise you will be able to brake much later and going at a higher speed. You will modulate the brakes less and with less thought or doubt than ever before. The third exercise is best left to be done at the track.

Watch my video and you will see what I mean about using only one brake action. I only used the front brake in this video and you will notice that I do not apply let off and then re-apply:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNU-cpUGIKo&feature=related

Doing these exercises will make you much faster than before without actually going any faster than you ever did before. What you are doing is condensing your braking down into one action that is closer to the turn and in a shorter amount of time. Have fun and be safe.....
:bow
 

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Yuppie Goldberg
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189 Posts
I should have posted that I was going, it would have been cool to meet a fellow member. I can't tell from the pic are you the one with the 07 R6 with the 5 Continents helmet. Were you the one that low sided the 2nd to last turn before the straight away? I was right behind you if that was you that went down.
Did it look fabulous? :gay
 
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