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crashing aint so bad
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unless you are running in the middle of the pack in the fastest group at your track days, the stockers are just fine.

The more expensive " race compound " pads do not like being pussy footed with and will actually reduce performance if not ridden to their design specifics.

To give you an idea, I am running in the top third of the fastest group of most any track day I attend. I am running stock pads and they perform just fine. I am by no means slow and I see no reason yet to go with more exotic pads. The stock pads really do perform great these days.
 

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=]
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What brake pads are you guys running on aggressive track/race days?
Thinking of going with ebc extreme pro
Recommendations?
I went with Vesrah RJL, they're great! If you run a faster pace, you may want to look into the SRJL. EBC Extreme Pro's are good too, they all compare to each other, you shouldn't have an issue.

unless you are running in the middle of the pack in the fastest group at your track days, the stockers are just fine.

The more expensive " race compound " pads do not like being pussy footed with and will actually reduce performance if not ridden to their design specifics.

To give you an idea, I am running in the top third of the fastest group of most any track day I attend. I am running stock pads and they perform just fine. I am by no means slow and I see no reason yet to go with more exotic pads. The stock pads really do perform great these days.
I don't know about that, I run intermediate pace and my stock brakes faded on me a few times at the end of the straight.
 

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track junkie
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I use to love EBC pads but the last set I got was galfer 1003 compound and I have to say they do have more bite. took a bite out of the wallett too. but they sure were better than the EBC's
 

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It's pronounced "Tollz"
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I run the Ferodo xrac. Not as much initial bite as the RJL's, but have better sustained stopping power under heavy braking.



unless you are running in the middle of the pack in the fastest group at your track days, the stockers are just fine.

The more expensive " race compound " pads do not like being pussy footed with and will actually reduce performance if not ridden to their design specifics.

To give you an idea, I am running in the top third of the fastest group of most any track day I attend. I am running stock pads and they perform just fine. I am by no means slow and I see no reason yet to go with more exotic pads. The stock pads really do perform great these days.
Not really true. Race pads sure won't decrease performance if not used hard. My track org taches to get suspension/brakes/tires first before all the pretty a/m stuff.

I went with Vesrah RJL, they're great! If you run a faster pace, you may want to look into the SRJL. EBC Extreme Pro's are good too, they all compare to each other, you shouldn't have an issue.



I don't know about that, I run intermediate pace and my stock brakes faded on me a few times at the end of the straight.
It's not the pads that fade, it's the fluid. your stock fluid WILL fade at faster paces. RBF600 is the way to go for track days.. even at the race level.
 

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Parts Pimp
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OP, there's 4 different aspects of brake pad performance to consider. What is more important to you will really determine which pad you will like most.

I love my extreme pros. I can say that they have a somewhat strong bite, and the overall braking force is really strong. No fading, and very hard braking without pulling the lever entirely too hard.

The ferodo xrac's from AGG2001 were awesome. No fade, and VERY consistent braking. Mild bite, predictable trail braking, and always having more brake available make these a favorite of mine and wildbill too! I hope the ZRACs come out soon for the r6. They should be a bit more bitey and right up my league on my stainless oem rotors

The four aspects to consider are:

1. Initial bite
2. Braking force/coefficient
3. Trail braking
4. Release

I would ask how each pad feels based on these aspects and decide what U want to run. I'm hoping the new setup that I have coming offers me excellent stopping force/friction, a mild initial bite, and very smooth and predictable trail braking. Iron rotors with carbon pads should be a whole new animal!
 

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crashing aint so bad
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All I can say is that I know I'm faster than most, if not all of you and the stock pads work fine. If you are having issues with the stock pads it's because your doing it wrong.........:sing

With the more exotic compound " race pads ", there is a performance drop if not used as intended. You may not notice it, simply because you aren't using the brakes to their full potential anyway. If the pads are not up to temp they may not have the bite that they can provide, they will also start to glaze over, which also reduces over all performance. Most all companies show a graph of brake performance. It shows brake performance vs. temperature. Most of the more exotic pads will produce better braking than a stock pad at any given time, however for the pad to work at it's peak, the heat must also be higher. The drop in performance I speak of is in the pad itself, not in relation to a stock pad.

There is another drawback to using the race designed stuff. Most companies design their pads to get through only a couple, or a few race weekends. EBC specifically states that the pad should be replaced when worn to half thickness! The reason is because of extra fluid volume in the caliper can lead to a spongy lever feel.

From EBC website:

"Pads should be discarded when half worn due to increased fluid volume that will be in the piston chambers as the pad advances towards the rotor. Not doing so will lead to spongy brake feel and can result in the brake lever coming back to the bar."

Now it would take a little longer for normal track use, but combined with street use, you can see that the race pads are not intended to last very long. The EBC race pads are also not cheap. Neither are any of the other brands race stuff. A champion race buddy of mine only got 1 race weekend out of his contingent brake pad brand. 1 weekend!!!!!!!!! About 200 miles. It was at the time, the pad to have too!!!!! Not a bad way to spend $80 bucks?

Another tid bit that might interest some? Faster riders actually spend less time on the brakes. Faster riders do apply more brake pressure though, which increases brake pad temp much quicker, bringing the pad to peak performance quicker. A novice, or even intermediate rider will spend entirely too much time on the brakes with much less pressure. The heat comes in, but it takes time and the rest of the braking system will absorb some of that heat. The issue is that as soon as you let off the brakes, the rotor and pads cool down again. So if it wasn't at peak temp, you will basically be playing catch up. All the while the average temp of the braking system as a whole goes up. When you use the brakes hard for brief periods, more of the heat is placed into the pads at first. This heat is still absorbed into the brake system, but the temp at the pads is hotter and helps keep the performance up. In both cases you still end up with a very hot braking system, but the more heat that is concentrated into the pad, the better.

The lower organic compound pads do not do well with heat. They usually show a drop in performance as the heat rises. However the stock pads on pretty much all sport bikes are HH compound. This is a sintered metal compound that is basically considered race worthy and was, up until several years ago the race compound. Any HH compound will have a standard of performance that will meet the needs of the average rider. It meets my needs and I can ride faster than 75% of people out there.

I'm not saying don't get the race pad, but my experience says you don't need to spend that money for no real useful gain. By useful gain I mean that a novice, to even intermediate rider really isn't utilizing the pad and is spending money on the wrong things. I would say the one place to not scinch money on is the brake fluid. I think that the real missing link in most brake systems is fresh, properly bled brake fluid. The better DOT 5 race stuff is expensive, but is worth it's weight in gold vs. brake pads. Even the best brake pad will still have fade if the rest of the system is not up to the task. This is why I say that if you have issues with the stock pads, your doing it wrong. Food for thought.
 

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tl;dr

Stock pads fade... My rjl's don't. Well, not NEARLY as bad. I'm trying the xracs this coming season. Supposed to fade even less bc of the array cooling built in.
 

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All I can say is that I know I'm faster than most, if not all of you and the stock pads work fine. If you are having issues with the stock pads it's because your doing it wrong.........:sing

With the more exotic compound " race pads ", there is a performance drop if not used as intended. You may not notice it, simply because you aren't using the brakes to their full potential anyway. If the pads are not up to temp they may not have the bite that they can provide, they will also start to glaze over, which also reduces over all performance. Most all companies show a graph of brake performance. It shows brake performance vs. temperature. Most of the more exotic pads will produce better braking than a stock pad at any given time, however for the pad to work at it's peak, the heat must also be higher. The drop in performance I speak of is in the pad itself, not in relation to a stock pad.

There is another drawback to using the race designed stuff. Most companies design their pads to get through only a couple, or a few race weekends. EBC specifically states that the pad should be replaced when worn to half thickness! The reason is because of extra fluid volume in the caliper can lead to a spongy lever feel.

From EBC website:

"Pads should be discarded when half worn due to increased fluid volume that will be in the piston chambers as the pad advances towards the rotor. Not doing so will lead to spongy brake feel and can result in the brake lever coming back to the bar."

Now it would take a little longer for normal track use, but combined with street use, you can see that the race pads are not intended to last very long. The EBC race pads are also not cheap. Neither are any of the other brands race stuff. A champion race buddy of mine only got 1 race weekend out of his contingent brake pad brand. 1 weekend!!!!!!!!! About 200 miles. It was at the time, the pad to have too!!!!! Not a bad way to spend $80 bucks?

Another tid bit that might interest some? Faster riders actually spend less time on the brakes. Faster riders do apply more brake pressure though, which increases brake pad temp much quicker, bringing the pad to peak performance quicker. A novice, or even intermediate rider will spend entirely too much time on the brakes with much less pressure. The heat comes in, but it takes time and the rest of the braking system will absorb some of that heat. The issue is that as soon as you let off the brakes, the rotor and pads cool down again. So if it wasn't at peak temp, you will basically be playing catch up. All the while the average temp of the braking system as a whole goes up. When you use the brakes hard for brief periods, more of the heat is placed into the pads at first. This heat is still absorbed into the brake system, but the temp at the pads is hotter and helps keep the performance up. In both cases you still end up with a very hot braking system, but the more heat that is concentrated into the pad, the better.

The lower organic compound pads do not do well with heat. They usually show a drop in performance as the heat rises. However the stock pads on pretty much all sport bikes are HH compound. This is a sintered metal compound that is basically considered race worthy and was, up until several years ago the race compound. Any HH compound will have a standard of performance that will meet the needs of the average rider. It meets my needs and I can ride faster than 75% of people out there.

I'm not saying don't get the race pad, but my experience says you don't need to spend that money for no real useful gain. By useful gain I mean that a novice, to even intermediate rider really isn't utilizing the pad and is spending money on the wrong things. I would say the one place to not scinch money on is the brake fluid. I think that the real missing link in most brake systems is fresh, properly bled brake fluid. The better DOT 5 race stuff is expensive, but is worth it's weight in gold vs. brake pads. Even the best brake pad will still have fade if the rest of the system is not up to the task. This is why I say that if you have issues with the stock pads, your doing it wrong. Food for thought.
:bowroll at how fast u think u are!!! :lmao

Good for u tho. Confidence is half the battle and you've got plenty!

PS, the brake calipers and brake system on the r6 is NOT DOT 5 friendly. :secret I wouldn't recommend it considering there are many warnings not to use it in the DOT 4 compatible systems. Swelling and deterioration of seals and parts in the system isnt good!
 

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:bowroll at how fast u think u are!!! :lmao

Good for u tho. Confidence is half the battle and you've got plenty!

PS, the brake calipers and brake system on the r6 is NOT DOT 5 friendly. :secret I wouldn't recommend it considering there are many warnings not to use it in the DOT 4 compatible systems. Swelling and deterioration of seals and parts in the system isnt good!
Please explain? Not being a dick but most of my knowledge comes from cars and with Brake fluid stepping up to a higher grade fluid is always recommended. Systems are usually designed to accept higher grade fluid but never lower grade.
 

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Well since I've already added to the thread I guess I'll go ahead and add more. Understand most of my knowledge is from cars and doing trackdays with my wrx/evo but unless you can operate brake pads in there designed range it is useless to upgrade. If the op is experiencing problems with the brakes then there is a reason to look at different options. If you are looking at brake pads just because, well you could actually reduce performance. Race pads used on the street are no good and could cause an accident. They will not grip well unless they are in their designed range. Example would be an emergency stop when brakes are cold. I'm sure being on a bike they would get the job done but maybe not in a predictable manor. Just food for thought.
 

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Please explain? Not being a dick but most of my knowledge comes from cars and with Brake fluid stepping up to a higher grade fluid is always recommended. Systems are usually designed to accept higher grade fluid but never lower grade.
:werd When I had put DOT 5 fluid in my bike cause I had it handy, I talked to my friend who I got it from. He had me flush it. Told me at the dealership he worked in, when they tried putting it in a bunch of dot 4 spec bikes, they had issues with caliper piston seals and a few other problems. The manual for the r6 specifically recommends dot4, which I hadn't realized at the time. Regardless, I steer clear of it because I talked to the shop I goto and they advised me similarly. Also told me to not blast brake parts cleaner into the piston areas when cleaning cause it can also swell the seals.

Dot 5 and 4 don't mix well anyway. It's nearly impossible to get the system completely dry to make the swap. Dot 5.1 is less viscous and really only for ABS equipped machines.

DOT 4 and somewhat frequent fluid changes are ideal. Let the moisture in the system be absorbed and flushed frequently and you'll never run into a boiling issue.

Well since I've already added to the thread I guess I'll go ahead and add more. Understand most of my knowledge is from cars and doing trackdays with my wrx/evo but unless you can operate brake pads in there designed range it is useless to upgrade. If the op is experiencing problems with the brakes then there is a reason to look at different options. If you are looking at brake pads just because, well you could actually reduce performance. Race pads used on the street are no good and could cause an accident. They will not grip well unless they are in their designed range. Example would be an emergency stop when brakes are cold. I'm sure being on a bike they would get the job done but maybe not in a predictable manor. Just food for thought.
I agree. My pads aren't as strong for a good 50 feet when cold and executing a high speed stop. Tested this out specifically yesterday when I rode cause it was a topic of conversation. This was only with my EBC HH's. I usually just ride the brake really slightly out of my neighborhood and never have a problem!

:cheers
 

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I was cooking the stock pads, switched to RJL's and it's better, but only good for 2 days before needing bleeding (using RBF600). Trying XRAC's next.

I'm running EBC HH pads on another bike and they're okay dry, but in the wet they are terrible.


In layman's terms DOT 5 sucks, don't use it.

Here are the technical reasons:
The original DOT 5 fluid specification was expected to be fulfilled by silicone based (SSBF) composition. It was designed for use in applications where its resistance to water absorption (and therefore low corrosion) was desired - like in military equipment. It has also found use in antique cars because it does not dissolve paint finishes. With SSBF, unfortunately, these characteristics were only achieved by unacceptably high compressibility. As such, the DOT 5 grade SSBF is of little value to any conventional automotive or high performance application.
 

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I have RJL's and they are great pads, helped me stop a LOT quicker at the track and feel great for street use. I wouldn't go back to stock now.

Luke knows his stuff, but from my personal experience I would upgrade to a street/track oriented pad.

Sure, the stock pads did OK for me, but there is no comparison to my RJL's IMO.
 

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I would agree with Luke here. I run in the upper half of the advanced group at the track days I go to, especially at Thunderhill, and I never changed my pads, EVER. I can tell you that there were PLENTY of people I know that had full on brake setups with the Galfer Superbike rotors, lines, and sticky pads and I regularly outbraked LOTS of them on my stock pads with FT lines and RBF600. The fluid is the biggest issue stock IMO, as I was able to fade the the brakes in just a few laps, then was stuck with spongy brakes all day. Fresh fluid and it came back, but still, went away again. Swap to FT lines and RBF on the same, from the factory, stock pads and I was pulling the rear tire up on some corner entrances.

Sure, it sucks to have to admit that you dont have the requisite skill to get the mileage out of your parts, but then, why spend money you dont have to spend if you cant max out the stock stuff anyways. Ive seen vids of Luke riding and know the tracks he rides and I assure you, the dude aint no slouch.

Like I said, I ran stock pads deeper into corners than a LOT of people and the power and feel aint that bad. Get some lines and fresh fluid and be done with it until you are in the upper part of the fastest group. Besides, there is more to be gained from suspension tuning than brake pads.
 

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crashing aint so bad
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I don't think, I know.............................

As often as I am at the track and knowing the times that the majority of people run, It places me in the top third of riders out there. I'm far from the fastest, certainly further from the slowest. What you don't understand Chief, is that the faster and faster riders are further and fewer between. Only a small percentage have the time and money put into riding that will get them to that point. In a class of 30 riders there may only be a few that will be the smashers, killing the field. The rest are either equal, or of varying speeds. I don't know what times you run Chief, but if your not within ten seconds of the normal fastest race lap produced at the tracks you frequent, then your not faster than me. Continuing to ride on the street will not make you faster either. It usually makes you slower, or from progressing past a certain point. So don't laugh at what you don't understand. If your faster than me, great! But you don't have to be a jerk about it.

I use the RBF600 which is a DOT 4 fluid. Simply because I used it before and have just continued since. I haven't had any issues, so why fix what ain't broke. You can clean a system to use the DOT 5 stuff, but you must be very thorough. The nice thing about the DOT 5 is the higher boiling point and it doesn't absorb water. It's downside is that it is touchy to bleeding, because interestingly, it absorbs air. There is a new DOT 5.1 which raises the bar even further. It is stated that DOT 5 fluids are not designed to work with ABS systems. Dot 5.1 has been formulated to work with the abs systems, but is still new to the game.

I don't have stupid money, so I spend money on my machine in places where I know it will help the most. I'm not out for a contingency, or a plaque either, so I see no need to spend money on the hot item's that the winners are running. The better brakes may help me shed a second off my lap times, but it comes at a cost. I don't see that cost as the means to an end. I would rather get a year of track days out of my pads and use the savings to get tires, or strippers..........
 
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The lower organic compound pads do not do well with heat. They usually show a drop in performance as the heat rises. However the stock pads on pretty much all sport bikes are HH compound. This is a sintered metal compound that is basically considered race worthy and was, up until several years ago the race compound. Any HH compound will have a standard of performance that will meet the needs of the average rider. It meets my needs and I can ride faster than 75% of people out there.
What do you mean by "lower organic compound pads?" Ferodo's older CP series pads actually don't work as well if they are not hot and are not ideal at tracks like Big Willow where there aren't as many hardcore braking zones, and there are long stretches where your brakes have a chance to cool. Their sintered XRAC or ZRAC pads perform better with LESS heat.
 
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I don't think, I know.............................
You seem pretty confident of your knowledge...

I would rather get a year of track days out of my pads and use the savings to get tires, or strippers..........
...so let me add to your "wisdom" by letting you know that if you're fast enough, you don't have to pay for tires, and if you're smooth enough, you don't have to pay for strippers... :flex:
 
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