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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
woolich racing is a company that makes flashing kits for your ecu. much like FTECU. I bought $1253 worth of it. I have the onboard flash cable, logging device, quickshifter with autoblipper, and the zietronix wideband O2 sensor setup for auto tuning. basically everything they offer for the R1 except the pit lane limiter button for the handle bar. I don't have a problem with their system as it works as intended even though it has a few quirks. I do have a problem with how they don't tell you if you don't flash your bike often (every 3 months) they deactivate your account and you have to open a support ticket and wait days for someone to re-activate it. I spent a lot of money on this system, I should be able to use it whenever I feel like it. it's as if my purchase is always being held hostage. what happens if WR goes out of business and my account is dead? I means I can't log into the software and I own $1253 worth of paper weights. and apparently they can see everything you do to your bike. because he gave me the exact date I last flashed my ecu. so yeah, you don't own anything you bought. you're renting it.

there is only 1 guy responding to help tickets apparently. he is a nice guy and all but the company's policy is complete bullshit. I don't feel this is legal in any way so I sent a complaint to the Ohio AG. we will see how it goes.

so if you're looking at buying one of these systems just beware that this is how woolich racing conducts business after your purchase, you don't technically own it. I would only recommend FTECU instead after having to deal with this.

if there is any of you guys with issues with FTECU or Woolich please share. I'm not purchasing systems from companies with this kind of policy ever again.
 

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Don't know what their brochure documentation states, but it sure sounds like a 'hidden gotcha' to me. A small claims court filing may spur them to reconsider any refusal to return/refund; particularly if it were marketed/sold without adequate documentation.

Is the product licensed per individual or per VIN or both or neither?

Maybe all this is because they don't want one individual flashing 300 bikes?

Do they also provide and maintain a repository of programs?

There are a lot of companies in general that try to turn what was traditionally a one-time purchase into a monthly bill. Pelaton for example.
The video game industry has gone that way, for another example. Modern games generally require that a server be built and maintained now though. Cisco tries this with many of their product line. It's a more sustainable business model for situations where on-going support of a product is required; and an otherwise more lucrative approach to normal operations. Some home A/C repair places are more interested in selling a monthly service agreement than actually diagnosing and repairing the problem. Microsoft sells you the O/S once, but ends up patching it for over a decade; which ordinarily isn't a sustainable model. They've been using income generated by their corporate and business licensing to prop-up and sustain their consumer operations. Other companies such as Apple, D-Link, etcetera, simply drop support rather than continually sustain older products.

Legitimate or not, they may respond to any AG inquiry by claiming the approach is required to limit piracy/theft and sustain on going support costs. You may want to file with their home state's AG. It may also help if you've identified specific ways in which their practices violate specific law. Anything going through government action it seems, can unfortunately take years.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
It seems they just deactivate you from being able to use the software if you don't flash your bike often.
When the software starts it has a login popup before it even starts to load. The system doesn't get online. As it will work offline. But when you turn on wifi etc that's when it sends the data back to them.
I guess if I don't keep it online they think I've found a loophole to flash other bikes possibly. However, you can't download another bin file( the files for another bike). You have to purchase them before that can happen. Apparently it reads the serial number or something in the ecu. So you can only flash that single ECU.
And that's all fine and dandy.

But I should be always able to log into the software to tweak my bike regardless how long it's been since the last time I used it. This is where my complaint is.
 

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It's a valid complaint. This sounds like an activation scheme that many software companies employ. Once it activates on the internet, it'll allow use of the generated token for some predetermined amount of time. Depending on how "well" or thorough the software was engineered, sometimes you can simply roll the clock back prior to token expiration to get around the impending reactivation problem.

Some companies, as they're going out of business will transfer the software to GPL and release a final update that removes or disables the activation mechanisms. Valve software's Steam platform I think does that temporary activation crap. You have to put it on the internet for initial activation and make sure it's able to check in every so often; or it won't let you run it offline. I've had customers that purchased tax prep software from Office Depot, Staples, etcetera. Because they were out in the boonies with no way to get internet, they couldn't activate it, and was therefore useless to them. Their tech support was ill-informed and not helpful. Situations like this are why Microsoft has phone-in activation for XP, Vista, 7. There are many ready-made anti-theft solutions out there that software companies license and incorporate into their release product. Companies typically engineer certain "triggers" in their anti-piracy software, such as a time change, that automatically invalidate the existing token; requiring another online activation.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
i've noticed on the software it's linked to my laptop before I replaced the harddrive to a SSD and re-installed windows. it's showing the old computer name. it's still showing that i have not used it since 2017. even though I just did a write to the ecu this morning. I wonder if this is the issue. they're just so bad at communication it's pain in the ass to find out.

honestly I would love to see laws passed that this kind of "gotcha" stuff needs to be in the product description without having to read 7 pages of legal mumbo-jumbo AFTER you already paid for it. they do not provide any of the legal agreement until after they have your money.

below is a screenshot of what I'm talking about. my pc name has changed since then
 

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I think that's probably just the original download and/or revision date. Have you noticed the date progressively changing before?

2 Race Tools Keys - does this equal the number of bikes that the software is registered with?
1 BIN file key - so it looks like you can purchase more than one BIN file for that specific vehicle. When you click on it to show info on that BIN file, it says "purchase"... why?

Is there a 'help' 'about' or 'license' menu that allows you to confirm status and details of the software registration?
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I think that's probably just the original download and/or revision date. Have you noticed the date progressively changing before?
I initially bought this kit in feb of 2016. so this 2017 stuff is arbitrary to me. it doesn't correlate with anything on my end. all of my flashes are automatically dated and none of them are the date they have. but you don't really ever look at that screen after you've already chosen the correct ecu setup. I have not looked at that since 2016. that's the first thing you do when they unlock the software with your email confirmation. after that you just open the bin file thats been downloaded already. that screen is where you download it from woolich.

2 Race Tools Keys - does this equal the number of bikes that the software is registered with? no it's the amount of the features I think. it came with the quick shifter and auto blipper. so i think that's what that means. the R1 already has a launch control built in but they do sell one separate for guys with air shifters for drag racing. the other options are pit lane limiter and an engine warm up. it blips the throttle and warms the engine up faster like you hear the motogp teams doing. it's useless shit I don't use.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4zn-4zaTk0
and yamaha's launch control is useless in my opinion. you still have to keep the bike from flipping even with wheelie control on during launches with LCS activated. all it seems to be is a 10k rpm rev limiter so you can hold the throttle open sitting there.

1 BIN file key - so it looks like you can purchase more than one BIN file for that specific vehicle. When you click on it to show info on that BIN file, it says "purchase"... why?
you can buy as many as you want for $100 ea. i imagine so you can flash more than 1 bike. they discount it if you buy 3 pack. the only info about the bin file is what you see in that picture. the rest of it is just the maps etc.
the weird thing is with my purchase i have access to just about any suzuki key for free. don't know if that's a mistake but it lets me download them.
Is there a 'help' 'about' or 'license' menu that allows you to confirm status and details of the software registration?
everything in the software sends you to their website. so if I click on account it takes me to their website where I have to login there. and it just shows you what you bought. no other kind of info about how they hold your purchase hostage for life.

replies are in the quote.

screenshot of the free suzuki files
 

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YZFR6... ooodles of HP
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Damn.. I was leaning towards woolich after ftecu blackballed units of early gens.. I paid for it and I will use it as long as I wish or no business from me.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Damn.. I was leaning towards woolich after ftecu blackballed units of early gens.. I paid for it and I will use it as long as I wish or no business from me.
the product is fantastic. I just think they're being dicks with this software shit. they still have not replied to the attorney general. it's been since june when I sent my complaint. so you can see how they act even to the authorities.
 

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YZFR6... ooodles of HP
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Yeah, I'm having similar problems with my yamaha dealer.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
So you flashed it yourself?? I did it at a motorstore and never had this problem..
yes, I flashed it myself. that's why the kit was so expensive. I wanted to make my own custom mapping etc. and be able to make those changes whenever I traveled to another state with a track.

they told me it's because you have to use it often. after 90 days of non use, your account gets deactivated. that's my issue. if I go to use it next spring, I can't until I contact them and they turn it back on. one should not have to do this. it should stay active permanently. there is no mention of this limitation on their website when I bought this system. so I don't see how they can hold anyone to this limitation. and I made this post in may of 2019. they still have not got back to the state attorney general about this matter. that's how arrogant they are.

if it were not for this on hiccup of a policy they employ I would praise their business. the flashing software and the kit are fantastic. I wish I knew how to use the software and tune really fine tune the bike. I will have to find a online or in person class how to tune engines and maybe most of it will carry over to this software so I can really dig into other aspects like ignition timing etc.

this stuff allows me to tune the bike for every gear etc. it's incredible how much tuning you can do to these new bikes. there's a list of about 10 other maps you can change on these new bikes. I can even change the etv (electronic throttle valve) opening rate effectively turning it into a quick turn throttle and a 1 to 1 opening rate like a carb is. so when I twist the throttle to 100% it gives me 100%. stock, none of your bikes will do this. the ecu determines what you get. and it's usually not 100% anywhere through the rpm range until it's way up close to redline and it's about 95% open. when you're at lets say 65mph and 3rd gear and you open the throttle 100% the ecu doesn't actually open it. it's probably only open 75%.
 

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YZFR6... ooodles of HP
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Allegedly injector balance and a few other things not in ftecu maps can be changed. So the software won't work without an internet connection?
 

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I will add some comments from the "other side" of the fence.

I have a 2017 Honda CBR1000RR
and my daughter has a 2017 R6

I have Woolich systems with the Zetronics Wideband O2 sensors for both bikes.

I love the flexibility of the software and the hardware works flawless.

I leave the system on both bikes all the time. On my CBR the Logbox turns on and off with the bike, however on the R6 it never turns off. I am going to put a solid state relay in between the Red wire on the Diagnostic connector to have the box power on and off with the bike.


That being said I have a couple of grips.

They never seem to respond to support tickets. Anthony used to but doesn't seem to anymore.
The shut down their forum, which actually used to be really good.

Its hard to get a hold of anyone at Woolich.

But.. I do love their product
 

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@smartdave
How is the R6 tuned? Snatchy throttle gone? Care to share specifics?
 

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I have a Full Yoshi Alpha T System on the bike with the AIS system plugged (marble mod)

I have the bike tuned Using Woolich, I am on my 6 or 7th write at this point. No Dyno but street riding and then tune after a data read.

Not quite sure what you mean by "snatchy" throttle. But it is very smooth and pulls hard
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
@smartdave
How is the R6 tuned? Snatchy throttle gone? Care to share specifics?
woolich doesn't supply custom maps. just the stock map so you can return it to stock.

as far as the snatchy on/off feeling mid corners that requires someone with knowledge of how to fine tune a map. someone on youtube talked about this once. I think it was a race team from australia riding a ducati. it was more of an infomercial than and instruction video though.
so it can be done.

and about your question of if it needs internet. No it doesn't. but if you have wifi on or the pc plugged into a router it will log into their servers. you still have to login to the software to use it offline. and somehow it keeps track of you. and you can install it on up to 3 computers at one time.


edit found the video

 

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Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
I will add some comments from the "other side" of the fence.

I have a 2017 Honda CBR1000RR
and my daughter has a 2017 R6

I have Woolich systems with the Zetronics Wideband O2 sensors for both bikes.

I love the flexibility of the software and the hardware works flawless.

I leave the system on both bikes all the time. On my CBR the Logbox turns on and off with the bike, however on the R6 it never turns off. I am going to put a solid state relay in between the Red wire on the Diagnostic connector to have the box power on and off with the bike.


That being said I have a couple of grips.

They never seem to respond to support tickets. Anthony used to but doesn't seem to anymore.
The shut down their forum, which actually used to be really good.

Its hard to get a hold of anyone at Woolich.


But.. I do love their product
all of this! I kind of wonder if someone figured out a way to circumvent their software and they got overly protective and shut the forum down so no one would share it. then implemented the 90 day deactivation stuff because I've had this since 2016 and this spring it became an issue. I've left it alone far longer than 90 days before.
 
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